Is Berberine Androgenic?

[TheBeard]

Berberine Disturbs the Expression of Sex-hormone Regulated Genes in β-naphthoflavone-induced Mice - SciAlert Responsive Version

« The single treatment of berberine up-regulated the expression of testicular CYP17, 3β-HSD and 17β-HSD1 mRNA. »

@haidut does that mean Berberine is androgenic as it upregulates the enzymes responsible for the last conversation steps of T into androgenic metabolites?

 

[haidut]

Berberine Disturbs the Expression of Sex-hormone Regulated Genes in β-naphthoflavone-induced Mice - SciAlert Responsive Version

« The single treatment of berberine up-regulated the expression of testicular CYP17, 3β-HSD and 17β-HSD1 mRNA. »

@haidut does that mean Berberine is androgenic as it upregulates the enzymes responsible for the last conversation steps of T into androgenic metabolites?

As far as I know 17b-HSD1 is involved in estrogen synthesis and 17b-HSD3 is involved in T synthesis. So, raising expression of 17b-HSD1 may not be such a good thing. As confirmation, inhibiting 17b-HSD1 is a therapeutic target for breast cancer.
HSD17B1 - Wikipedia
17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency - Wikipedia

 

[x-ray peat]

Here is some evidence it is anti-androgenic
Berberine inhibits androgen synthesis by interaction with aldo-keto reductase 1C3 in 22Rv1 prostate cancer cells
Berberine Suppresses Androgen Receptor Signaling in Prostate Cancer

which is unfortunate because it offers a lot of benefits
Berberine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

 

[TheBeard]

Here is some evidence it is anti-androgenic
Berberine inhibits androgen synthesis by interaction with aldo-keto reductase 1C3 in 22Rv1 prostate cancer cells
Berberine Suppresses Androgen Receptor Signaling in Prostate Cancer

which is unfortunate because it offers a lot of benefits
Berberine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

That only proves it is anti-androgenic at the prostate tissue level.
It’s not any evidence for systemic anti-androgenic activity

 

[TheBeard]

As far as I know 17b-HSD1 is involved in estrogen synthesis and 17b-HSD3 is involved in T synthesis. So, raising expression of 17b-HSD1 may not be such a good thing. As confirmation, inhibiting 17b-HSD1 is a therapeutic target for breast cancer.
HSD17B1 - Wikipedia
17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency - Wikipedia

Thank you!

 

[Lokzo]

I've used Berberine for purposes related to PERMANENTLY up-regulating PDE5A enzyme. However, I do suspect that it may have raised my Estradiol, according to my blood test.
[Effect of berberine on the mRNA expression of phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5) in rat corpus cavernosum]. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TheBeard]

I've used Berberine for purposes related to PERMANENTLY up-regulating PDE5A enzyme. However, I do suspect that it may have raised my Estradiol, according to my blood test.
[Effect of berberine on the mRNA expression of phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5) in rat corpus cavernosum]. - PubMed - NCBI

Why would you want to upregulate PDE5?

It’s the inhibition of this enzyme that favors blood flow to the penis and erection

 

[Mossy]

I've used Berberine for purposes related to PERMANENTLY up-regulating PDE5A enzyme. However, I do suspect that it may have raised my Estradiol, according to my blood test.
[Effect of berberine on the mRNA expression of phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5) in rat corpus cavernosum]. - PubMed - NCBI

Per a study on the Life Extension website and magazine, their is an ideal range of estradiol for men that favors longevity. So, if there is truth to this, a man’s estradiol can be too low, and may be something you’d want to raise. I know that on my last testing of estradiol, I was on the lower side of this suggested ideal range, which they claim is worse than being too high; so, a means to raise it may have some value. This, of course, assumes the study/article is correct:

The men in the highest quintile who suffered 133%increased death rates had serum estradiol levels of 37.40 pg/mL or above. The lowest estradiol group that suffered a 317% increased death rate had serum estradiol levels under 12.90 pg/mL.

 

[Momado965]

As far as I know 17b-HSD1 is involved in estrogen synthesis and 17b-HSD3 is involved in T synthesis. So, raising expression of 17b-HSD1 may not be such a good thing. As confirmation, inhibiting 17b-HSD1 is a therapeutic target for breast cancer.
HSD17B1 - Wikipedia
17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency - Wikipedia

Aside from saturated fats and b3 what else enforces the expression of HSD 17b3 enzyme?

 

[Waynish]

Anything that is used to wipe out organisms in the gut is probably not going to be androgenic. However, curing gut dysbiosis even temporarily may get you pro-androgenic blood test results.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I think berberine may act in an adaptogenic way - balancing hormones (bringing down if too high, bringing up if too low). It increases SHBG which RP says is good to have high. It improves insulin sensitivity, insulin sensitivity and testosterone levels appear to correlate highly in men, and more so inversely in women. I've been taking around 500mg once a day for over a month now, the um, physical markers that my T is high and E is low are quite obvious to me.... TMI ALERT.... ejaculate volume has gone off the charts... not attributing this all to berberine, but at this dose I can't complain.


Increasing Insulin Resistance Is Associated with a Decrease in Leydig Cell Testosterone Secretion in Men | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

Relationship Between Testosterone Levels, Insulin Sensitivity, and Mitochondrial Function in Men
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.399.2609&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

[TheBeard]

Anything that is used to wipe out organisms in the gut is probably not going to be androgenic. However, curing gut dysbiosis even temporarily may get you pro-androgenic blood test results.

You mean like too much fiber or psyllium is going to take away some androgencecity?

Why is that?

 

[Waynish]

You mean like too much fiber or psyllium is going to take away some androgencecity?

Why is that?

No, I mean it could increase *or* decrease it. Changing the bacterial load and diversity can affect the endocrine system.

 

[Lokzo]

I think berberine may act in an adaptogenic way - balancing hormones (bringing down if too high, bringing up if too low). It increases SHBG which RP says is good to have high. It improves insulin sensitivity, insulin sensitivity and testosterone levels appear to correlate highly in men, and more so inversely in women. I've been taking around 500mg once a day for over a month now, the um, physical markers that my T is high and E is low are quite obvious to me.... TMI ALERT.... ejaculate volume has gone off the charts... not attributing this all to berberine, but at this dose I can't complain.


Increasing Insulin Resistance Is Associated with a Decrease in Leydig Cell Testosterone Secretion in Men | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

Relationship Between Testosterone Levels, Insulin Sensitivity, and Mitochondrial Function in Men
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.399.2609&rep=rep1&type=pdf

My SHBG was off the scale high when using Berberine.

And for my post above, I really meant PERMANENT DECREASE in PDE5 mRNA expression

 

[Lokzo]

No, I mean it could increase *or* decrease it. Changing the bacterial load and diversity can affect the endocrine system.

We definitely know that microbiome can influence AROMATASE:
A link between sex hormones, obesity and gut microbiota | ECE2017

 

[Captain_Coconut]

My SHBG was off the scale high when using Berberine.

And for my post above, I really meant PERMANENT DECREASE in PDE5 mRNA expression

How much were you taking? I’ve found the standard 500mg 3x a day to be too strong.

 

[Wagner83]

Doesn't berberine have effects on serotonin transport/excretion or something?
I wonder how safe it is:
On the mechanism of antidepressant-like action of berberine chloride. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Lokzo]

How much were you taking? I’ve found the standard 500mg 3x a day to be too strong.

I was frequently microdosing... Around 100mg in total, for many weeks.

 

[TheBeard]

No, I mean it could increase *or* decrease it. Changing the bacterial load and diversity can affect the endocrine system.

It’s funny you mention this:

I started taking an organic meal replacement one year ago that had fiber and vitamin.

I’

My SHBG was off the scale high when using Berberine.

And for my post above, I really meant PERMANENT DECREASE in PDE5 mRNA expression

Yeah that’s better

 

[x-ray peat]

And for my post above, I really meant PERMANENT DECREASE in PDE5 mRNA expression

That's like a permanent dose of viagra. Did you actually have your PDE5 levels checked?