I'm A Guy And I LOVE Progesterone

[marsaday]

ProgestE made originally by Ray Peat.

 

[mjs]

ProgestE made originally by Ray Peat.

Couldn't find any store around here w ProgestE.

About the Belgium creme, all pharma stuff seems to be on prescription only.

 

[Makrosky]

Progesterone ---> More MAO-A ---> Less serotonin ---> More dopamine!

Huh? Mao-a degrades dopamine as well.

 

[DaveFoster]

Huh? Mao-a degrades dopamine as well.

*More dopamine in relation to serotonin (as MAO-A preferentially degrades dopamine.)

 

[Makrosky]

*More dopamine in relation to serotonin (as MAO-A preferentially degrades dopamine.)

Do you have a source for that, Dave? I think MAO-A degrades them equally. Otherwise MAOIs would be peat friendly which they are not. Or am I missing something?

 

[Quality]

Not that any of you guys on here are going to admit it, but I can imagine the progesterone(cream) has negative feedback thereby lowering fertility?

I seemed to respond emotionally well to vitex (increases progesterone), damiana (another herb that has progesterone mimicing effects) and chamomile (anti-estrogenic).

However the spots/acne on my abdomen and bouts of crying/aggression on vitex became too much for me at some point.

 

[Dhair]

Not that any of you guys on here are going to admit it, but I can imagine the progesterone(cream) has negative feedback thereby lowering fertility?

I seemed to respond emotionally well to vitex (increases progesterone), damiana (another herb that has progesterone mimicing effects) and chamomile (anti-estrogenic).

However the spots/acne on my abdomen and bouts of crying/aggression on vitex became too much for me at some point.

Why would we be reluctant to admit that? Everyone knows that prolonged high dose progesterone will kill libido and be anti-androgenic, but it is not estrogenic.
Most teas are estrogenic. Also, vitex is estrogenic. What were you taking it for?

 

[DaveFoster]

Do you have a source for that, Dave? I think MAO-A degrades them equally. Otherwise MAOIs would be peat friendly which they are not. Or am I missing something?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/monoamine-oxidase

"MAO-A preferentially deaminates serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, and melatonin, whereas MAO-B preferentially deaminates phenylethylamine, phenylethanolamine, tyramine, and benzylamine."

 

[Dhair]

Monoamine oxidase - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

"MAO-A preferentially deaminates serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, and melatonin, whereas MAO-B preferentially deaminates phenylethylamine, phenylethanolamine, tyramine, and benzylamine."

Dave, I read that you used a "hefty dose" of progesterone when you pushed your metabolism a little too far a while back and it calmed things down significantly. What does did you use and was it transdermal or oral? Haidut has said that his progestene has about 10x potency when used topically.

 

[DaveFoster]

Dave, I read that you used a "hefty dose" of progesterone when you pushed your metabolism a little too far a while back and it calmed things down significantly. What does did you use and was it transdermal or oral? Haidut has said that his progestene has about 10x potency when used topically.

It was transdermal in DMSO.

When I "pushed my metabolism a little too far," I actually took too much thyroid that sensitized my body to adrenaline. (It wasn't true hyperthyroidism.)

Larger amounts of pregnenolone can act in a similar manner as progesterone, and the former will backfill the steroid pathways and facilitate the production of the latter.

 

[Dhair]

It was transdermal in DMSO.

When I "pushed my metabolism a little too far," I actually took too much thyroid that sensitized my body to adrenaline. (It wasn't true hyperthyroidism.)

Larger amounts of pregnenolone can act in a similar manner as progesterone, and the former will backfill the steroid pathways and facilitate the production of the latter.

Yes, that's what I meant. I am dealing with the same issue now regarding the adrenaline sensitization and I've been dealing with it for several weeks but I have progesterone on the way.
Do you recall how much you were taking? Apparently the SFA esters version is comparable to the DMSO version topically.

 

[DaveFoster]

Yes, that's what I meant. I am dealing with the same issue now regarding the adrenaline sensitization and I've been dealing with it for several weeks but I have progesterone on the way.
Do you recall how much you were taking? Apparently the SFA esters version is comparable to the DMSO version topically.

Foster’s Thyroid Protocol

Taking about 600 mg pregnenolone (or ~60 mg topically in DMSO) can be helpful, or around 200-400 mg progesterone (20-40 mg topical progesterone in DMSO.) I wouldn't start as high as 200 mg progesterone (or 20 mg progesterone in DMSO).

 

[DrJ]

Thanks for starting this thread. I only recently tried experimenting with progesterone. I always had the impression it was more geared for the ladies, but I wish I had tried it sooner.

I had been taking (oral) pregnenolone, with great results at first, but then less great results as time went on. I got the impression that maybe it wasn't being converted down the most desirable hormone pathways, especially when I was under stress. I suspected it was often being converted to cortisol, which was making me grumpy/cranky and causing problems with my digestive system. I wasn't getting the euphoric feeling anymore; I would sometimes drift towards the helpless-feeling end of the spectrum. But it was hard to nail down, because sometimes when I was under stress, a large dose of pregnenolone would make life feel like "no worries, I can handle this, I'll get it under control." I couldn't figure out why sometimes pregnenolone seemed to stop stress, and sometimes it seemed to feed a cortisol reaction. I know the hormone pathways, but don't have a good grasp of why they make one transition rather than another. Happy to hear if anyone can share their knowledge here...

Anyways, I'm 2 weeks into my progesterone experiment, taking about 20mg/day spread out in 4x 5mg doses rubbed into the forearms. Hands down it is working more reliably than pregnenolone for me, and in the middle of a lot of at-work stress, too. I have a positive, "this is no sweat" outlook, and feel more compassionate towards others. Sometime pregnenolone seemed to make me feel cold towards people. I feel like I 'dance through' social interactions much more skillfully and playfully, as others have noted. Skin is looking more "sleek" and uniform all around. Appetite is way up so that I have to eat way more often. I have not noticed any ill effects, shrinkage, or loss of libido. I'm going to keep up at this dosage until I run into problems. The consistency of effect so far is definitely a huge plus.

 

[marsaday]

Why are you taking so much progesterone at 20mg per day ???

A male produces between 10-20mcg per day (same as a woman). A woman will make a 100 times more at the time of the month she goes into ovulation.

So a man wants to be using no more than 10mcg per day longer term. I have been using it for 2 1/2 yrs and my health is generally good and if i stopped the progesterone it would be significantly worse. I am getting a good cortisol input from the progesterone.

I use 6mcg per day. IT is 2 drops of the ProgestE oil rubbed on my skin.

I have no lowering of libido or penis size.

I used to use pregnenalone and had the same experience. It worked great initially and then just stopped helping. Progesterone has been far far more effective and time wise it has proved to work week after week.

 

[Quality]

Why would we be reluctant to admit that? Everyone knows that prolonged high dose progesterone will kill libido and be anti-androgenic, but it is not estrogenic.
Most teas are estrogenic. Also, vitex is estrogenic. What were you taking it for?

I had read a ton of information about it, from multiple source were saying it is anti-serotonin, pro dopamine (acts as a d2-agonist at higher doses, while it increases prolactin at lower doses).
Also all the source I've read saying it works on progesteron, cant find anything on estrogen.

 

[Quality]

@DrJ and @marsaday, thanks for information about that, the difference in dose between people is huge though admittedly, however this is also the case when I dig up information about for example pregnenolone.
There is for example a U curve with regards to pregenolone and its activity at the gaba-a receptor, where both very low and very high dose being pro gaba-a, and the medium dose working against it, im not saying this is also the case with progesterone, im just highlighting the huge differences in dosing.

@DrJ, I see that you are dosing 4 times a day, do you find the effect lasts really short? that is really a bummer if so...

@marsaday, great to hear that its having such a good effect. do you use both drops once a day, or twice a day one drop?

 

[Braveheart]

Why are you taking so much progesterone at 20mg per day ???

A male produces between 10-20mcg per day (same as a woman). A woman will make a 100 times more at the time of the month she goes into ovulation.

So a man wants to be using no more than 10mcg per day longer term. I have been using it for 2 1/2 yrs and my health is generally good and if i stopped the progesterone it would be significantly worse. I am getting a good cortisol input from the progesterone.

I use 6mcg per day. IT is 2 drops of the ProgestE oil rubbed on my skin.

I have no lowering of libido or penis size.

I used to use pregnenalone and had the same experience. It worked great initially and then just stopped helping. Progesterone has been far far more effective and time wise it has proved to work week after week.

you take no pregnenolone? what do you take? only progesterone?...thanks

 

[DrJ]

@marsaday That was the lowest dosage listed on my bottle, so I just thought I'd start there. Will let you know if the balls drop off lol. In the guy Ray talked about who had a morphine and drinking problem who took enough progesterone to "neuter most people" in order to break the addiction was taking 1000mg/day. So I'm quite below that.

@Quality Mainly dosed it that way because that's all I could rub in at one time without making a big mess

 

[Frankdee20]

Thanks for starting this thread. I only recently tried experimenting with progesterone. I always had the impression it was more geared for the ladies, but I wish I had tried it sooner.

I had been taking (oral) pregnenolone, with great results at first, but then less great results as time went on. I got the impression that maybe it wasn't being converted down the most desirable hormone pathways, especially when I was under stress. I suspected it was often being converted to cortisol, which was making me grumpy/cranky and causing problems with my digestive system. I wasn't getting the euphoric feeling anymore; I would sometimes drift towards the helpless-feeling end of the spectrum. But it was hard to nail down, because sometimes when I was under stress, a large dose of pregnenolone would make life feel like "no worries, I can handle this, I'll get it under control." I couldn't figure out why sometimes pregnenolone seemed to stop stress, and sometimes it seemed to feed a cortisol reaction. I know the hormone pathways, but don't have a good grasp of why they make one transition rather than another. Happy to hear if anyone can share their knowledge here...

Anyways, I'm 2 weeks into my progesterone experiment, taking about 20mg/day spread out in 4x 5mg doses rubbed into the forearms. Hands down it is working more reliably than pregnenolone for me, and in the middle of a lot of at-work stress, too. I have a positive, "this is no sweat" outlook, and feel more compassionate towards others. Sometime pregnenolone seemed to make me feel cold towards people. I feel like I 'dance through' social interactions much more skillfully and playfully, as others have noted. Skin is looking more "sleek" and uniform all around. Appetite is way up so that I have to eat way more often. I have not noticed any ill effects, shrinkage, or loss of libido. I'm going to keep up at this dosage until I run into problems. The consistency of effect so far is definitely a huge plus.

You're correct, I've taken low doses of Pregnenalone when stressed, and it's amazing how helpful it is. Then try same dose when I'm not, and it feels stimulating

 

[marsaday]

I take progesterone only. 1 drop AM and 1 drop afternoon. So 2 drops per day = 6mcg.