How To Properly Reduce Estradiol?

[Kunstruct]

I am having massive issues with estradiol or maybe with other estrogens too.
Constant nipple irritation, or nipple pain or even very bad nipple pain like stabbing pains.
My age is 32.

So far the theory is D-Alpha Tocopherol, Retinol, Vitamin D3, K2 MK4 applied topically.
Unfortunately they seem to pretty much don't do anything at all, they sure have cut completely my ability to maintain an erection, libido is not that important to me, but an erection it is.
Sometimes if I apply a lot of retinyl palmitate on skin I will get some headaches at around 40-50K IU
Taking Zinc doesn't really help in any way at all, just shrinks the penis completely at 15-30mg doses, higher doses like 60mg does the same and creates an issue of not being able to get any blood in the penis whatsoever, this actually hurts physically.
I have been taking Magnesium citrate around 500mg to 1000mg which seems to also do nothing all. Considering it is citrate I will replace it with some other form of Magnesium
I have been taking some selenium methionine, 200mcg, seems like it does something after a couple of hours for a couple of hours after which the breast area comes back with issues.

I am not quite sure but something is aggressively keeping my estradiol up. This has also led me to getting fatter and well strength went down a lot.

I have been taking a bit of 15% Lugol from time to time, seems to pretty much shrink the scrotum and penis but not much else.

I am drinking Cola so I get around 30mgh caffeine daily, I thought that would matter to get some caffeine in considering I am not drinking coffee.

Taking orally around 5mg DHEA and Pregnelonone does not help me in any way, when I am good after a while and I do not feel bad in the chest area, if I take those I can feel in 30min to 1 hour the nipples slow get irritated and in 2 hours surely i will get some serious stabbing pains in the mammary glands

I have been trying to use like 1gram of Glycine and 1gram of Taurine for a week, it did nothing when added to the rest of the stack, even 2grams of Creatine daily

I do not have recent bloodwork done, but last time it several months ago:

Low TSH (which is the default with me so far in life)
Normal DHEA-S
Normal SHBG
Normal Progesterone
Higher end of lab Cortisol ranges
Low Test
So called in middle of the range DHT which is in my opinion low, but with high Estradiol and low T one could not expect differently
Prolactine is always low , this time was higher than before but still average within the labs range, not high.

I am not quite sure what is going on but I can't say any of my anti-estradiol supplement did anything for me, before I had more strength than now for
sure and if I work out well recovery is very slow. Yes issues with the nipples are still there.

I am not eating mushrooms to lower my DHT, or Curcuma or mint (even if can sure cut some nausea rarely when needed) things I think they would lower my DHT, like some say high Zinc dose lowers 5AR enzymes.so I have not done large doses just a couple of time to see if I would get some acute positive effects but there weren't any acute positive effects.

I have been reading here people after taking things like a bit of Vitamin E they would feel better, have some libido, some say this with K2 MK4, and a lot of positive stories with pretty much everything I have been taking, but for me all is going downhill, getting fatter, no energy, pain is still there, strength is way lower, workout stamina is like not existing.

One thing I would mention, Viagra or Cialis has zero effect on me, no matter the dosage or how much time I make sure to avoid food around taking the pills.
Maybe that can say something about other hormonal aspects which I am not thinking of, but surely seems like a surprising thing for me and I would guess to anybody.
Knowing how some old people around me or even on the internet celebrate because viagra and Cialis makes them like new kind of makes me wonder what can be so extremely bad with me?

Not quite sure what is going on, but it is starting to worry me a lot lately, especially when I see no improvement from my approach only worsening at a steady pace, which theoretically should make no sense.

 

[YourUniverse]

Drink lots of milk, eat oysters regularly (weekly), decent protein, and take a vitamin E and D (or layout for lots of sun)

 

[Douglas Ek]

I am having massive issues with estradiol or maybe with other estrogens too.
Constant nipple irritation, or nipple pain or even very bad nipple pain like stabbing pains.
My age is 32.

So far the theory is D-Alpha Tocopherol, Retinol, Vitamin D3, K2 MK4 applied topically.
Unfortunately they seem to pretty much don't do anything at all, they sure have cut completely my ability to maintain an erection, libido is not that important to me, but an erection it is.
Sometimes if I apply a lot of retinyl palmitate on skin I will get some headaches at around 40-50K IU
Taking Zinc doesn't really help in any way at all, just shrinks the penis completely at 15-30mg doses, higher doses like 60mg does the same and creates an issue of not being able to get any blood in the penis whatsoever, this actually hurts physically.
I have been taking Magnesium citrate around 500mg to 1000mg which seems to also do nothing all. Considering it is citrate I will replace it with some other form of Magnesium
I have been taking some selenium methionine, 200mcg, seems like it does something after a couple of hours for a couple of hours after which the breast area comes back with issues.

I am not quite sure but something is aggressively keeping my estradiol up. This has also led me to getting fatter and well strength went down a lot.

I have been taking a bit of 15% Lugol from time to time, seems to pretty much shrink the scrotum and penis but not much else.

I am drinking Cola so I get around 30mgh caffeine daily, I thought that would matter to get some caffeine in considering I am not drinking coffee.

Taking orally around 5mg DHEA and Pregnelonone does not help me in any way, when I am good after a while and I do not feel bad in the chest area, if I take those I can feel in 30min to 1 hour the nipples slow get irritated and in 2 hours surely i will get some serious stabbing pains in the mammary glands

I have been trying to use like 1gram of Glycine and 1gram of Taurine for a week, it did nothing when added to the rest of the stack, even 2grams of Creatine daily

I do not have recent bloodwork done, but last time it several months ago:

Low TSH (which is the default with me so far in life)
Normal DHEA-S
Normal SHBG
Normal Progesterone
Higher end of lab Cortisol ranges
Low Test
So called in middle of the range DHT which is in my opinion low, but with high Estradiol and low T one could not expect differently
Prolactine is always low , this time was higher than before but still average within the labs range, not high.

I am not quite sure what is going on but I can't say any of my anti-estradiol supplement did anything for me, before I had more strength than now for
sure and if I work out well recovery is very slow. Yes issues with the nipples are still there.

I am not eating mushrooms to lower my DHT, or Curcuma or mint (even if can sure cut some nausea rarely when needed) things I think they would lower my DHT, like some say high Zinc dose lowers 5AR enzymes.so I have not done large doses just a couple of time to see if I would get some acute positive effects but there weren't any acute positive effects.

I have been reading here people after taking things like a bit of Vitamin E they would feel better, have some libido, some say this with K2 MK4, and a lot of positive stories with pretty much everything I have been taking, but for me all is going downhill, getting fatter, no energy, pain is still there, strength is way lower, workout stamina is like not existing.

One thing I would mention, Viagra or Cialis has zero effect on me, no matter the dosage or how much time I make sure to avoid food around taking the pills.
Maybe that can say something about other hormonal aspects which I am not thinking of, but surely seems like a surprising thing for me and I would guess to anybody.
Knowing how some old people around me or even on the internet celebrate because viagra and Cialis makes them like new kind of makes me wonder what can be so extremely bad with me?

Not quite sure what is going on, but it is starting to worry me a lot lately, especially when I see no improvement from my approach only worsening at a steady pace, which theoretically should make no sense.

Zinc will probably make it worse for you. Have you investigated copper and iron? I had similair situation and a lot of other guya spoken to me had low iron levels and get same symptoms. All of them feelt better taking iron. On top of that i understand your situation as ive once been there but taking lots of supplements will not help you and probably only make the imbalance worse. You need to get full blood work done instead of just taking lots of supplements hoping for the best. Get as many vitamins, minerals and hormones tested as possible. Including blood status as hemoglobin, ferritin and iron. They will help you guide you in the right direction. Everyone else here will just suggest diets and supplements you probably already tried. There so many more reasons your libido is low just than estrogen, testosterone and DHT I had really high estrogen naturally and I dont have problem with libido. Good luck!

Ps stop all supplements for now untill you got blood work done and try to focus on a nutrient rich diet instead and rest instead of exercise. With cortisol like that exercise will only slow down healing.

 

[Kunstruct]

Low vitamin D during development can also result in a larger skull. Average height and IQ tends to increase as one moves from the equator to the poles. Average penis length decreases.

Drink lots of milk, eat oysters regularly (weekly), decent protein, and take a vitamin E and D (or layout for lots of sun)

I do say I take E and D and many other things. in my original post.
I do not quite see why I would need oysters at this point, maybe for zinc, copper, etc but all those are covered already and they don't improve anything for me for months.
From time to time I took some 3mg chelated copper just to make sure zinc wasn't dragging my copper down.

I got a lot of sun exposure, many hours, because I thought i can help me, unfortunately it hasn't changed anything in several months.

Milk, I cannot drink it, I will have diarrhea.

 

[YourUniverse]

Milk, I cannot drink it, I will have diarrhea.

cheese, or eggshell powder then. Calcium is important for these issues

 

[Runenight201]

What is your diet like? Something is going wrong there if you’re degenerating even though your taking many anti-estrogen supps along with dht + dopamine raising supps. The food you’re eating along with subpar digestion could be causing inflammation and bloat.

 

[Kunstruct]

cheese, or eggshell powder then. Calcium is important for these issues

Cheese for sure present in my diet, Calcium Carbonate supplementation exists also around 500mg to 1200mg daily.

 

[Kunstruct]

Iron if it is low I could understand how it would negatively affect 5AR
I have not checked it in the last 12 months, last time was at a mediocre level, not low, but not high at all.

Free Testosterone history, all around 8-9 AM

2016.04.22 - 55,4 pg/ml
2016.05.09 - 47,3 pg/ml
2017.01.13 - 20 pg/ml (DHT Over 2500 pg/mL, the clinic in Germany cannot test higher than 2500, only says over 2500)
2017.04.05 - 18 pg/ml (DHT 1120 pg/mL)
2017.06.12 - 15 pg/ml
2018.04.20 - 11,7 pg/ml
2018.09.03 - 8,98 pg/ml (DHT 667 pg/mL)


Those first higher levels of Free Test and DHT by not even thinking of taking any vitamin or mineral, just eating eggs, cheese, meats, rice, pasta,
sweets, mcdonalds and pretty much no vegetables.

The latest values I already started taking a lot of things and nothing has improved at all physically, I do think I would need to see results for
Testosterone or DHT at this time due to low muscle mass, zero erections, massive strength loss, neverending high Estradiol symptoms

 

[Kunstruct]

What is your diet like? Something is going wrong there if you’re degenerating even though your taking many anti-estrogen supps along with dht + dopamine raising supps. The food you’re eating along with subpar digestion could be causing inflammation and bloat.

That is what makes me stressed at this point to even write on the forums, with those supplement it makes not much sense to keep having real palpable issues.
But look at my Free Testosterone and DHT levels when are high, I was having a lot of diarheea and bloating at that time.
Now I pretty much don't have any indigestion for like 2 months, stool is perfect, defecation happens without effort and daily, etc. Just that everything else regarding T, DTH and E2 is the same like those supplements wouldn't be doing anything and I have been careful with most of them (not Vit E in sunflower, etc)

So my dies in the last months which is pretty much like before, consists in chicken meat, white rice, pasta, beef, bread, mcdonalds, sweets, cheese, cola, salami.
Very little eggs in the last year, but I am starting to get back to them.
Rarely I eat chicken liver too.
Pretty much no vegetables, just some carrots, some garlic there and there some onion.
Before I had a lot of Sunflower oil back 3-5years ago, now for several months no sunflower oil at all and now I have a bit of coconut oil here and then in a week and a tiny bit of olive oil rarely.

 

[Kunstruct]

Zinc will probably make it worse for you. Have you investigated copper and iron? I had similair situation and a lot of other guya spoken to me had low iron levels and get same symptoms. All of them feelt better taking iron. On top of that i understand your situation as ive once been there but taking lots of supplements will not help you and probably only make the imbalance worse. You need to get full blood work done instead of just taking lots of supplements hoping for the best. Get as many vitamins, minerals and hormones tested as possible. Including blood status as hemoglobin, ferritin and iron. They will help you guide you in the right direction. Everyone else here will just suggest diets and supplements you probably already tried. There so many more reasons your libido is low just than estrogen, testosterone and DHT I had really high estrogen naturally and I dont have problem with libido. Good luck!

Ps stop all supplements for now untill you got blood work done and try to focus on a nutrient rich diet instead and rest instead of exercise. With cortisol like that exercise will only slow down healing.

I usually did a lot of tests like DHT, T, FREE T, TSH, Progestreone, DHEA-S, Prolactin, SHBG, Androstendion, LH, FSH, Cortisol
Iron was not bad, rather mediocre last time but it is time to test it again.

I will test these: hemoglobin, ferritin and iron and then decide about the Iron supplementation.


See your libido is fine even with high estrogen, I have only tested fro Estradiol, never total estrogens. That being said, libido or erections are definitely good to have, but I am also bothered by mammary glad pains, which I was expecting Retinol Vitamin E, D3 K2 , magnesium, selenium, etc to at least fix those, even if they can't restore erection function and normal flaccid state (without the feeling or constant irritable shrinking)

 

[YourUniverse]

Do you eat liver? How regularly? It interacts closely with vitamins D and K; vitamin A is related to up-regulating 5AR which appears to be a goal of yours. I dont know much about iron (other than you want to avoid overload), but liver is also a rich source of that, for what its worth

 

[YourUniverse]

L-theanine can reduce cortisol, which could/should impact your low-normal Test

 

[sebastian_r]

Lose bodyfat.
Seriously!
Impossible to have high E2 as lean male without using exogenous steroids.
Get lean as fast as possible, then move back to a sustainable diet. 24-48h fasts then OMAD refead high protein high carb. Rinse and repeat till you lean.

 

[YourUniverse]

Lose bodyfat.
Seriously!

I wanted to add this, I'll echo

 

[Runenight201]

Try eating more fruit and less refined sugar. It can make a huge difference. Instead of cola with your meals try orange/grape/apple juice. Some well boiled greens that you find enjoyable as well, and the eggs should help too. The rest of your diet looks fine.

 

[Kunstruct]

Yeah, I mention I chicken liver rarely.

As I was saying I am taking Retinyl Palmiate topically, which is Vitamin A
I have taken even a bit of a largeer 40K IU dose but at that point I have noticed some headaches so I decided to do only 10K IU or 20K IU topically, which is quite low based on some, others would say do 100k IU, I would but I don't need the massive headaches.

Now with the amount of supplementation I take and the variety I am mentioning the original post I was not expecting any Estradiol issues that are so chronic
and obvious days at a time.

I was expecting even Vitamin A to reduce cortisol based on studies posted here on the forums.
I am even taking Vitamin C around 2grams every other day.
As I mentioned I even take Glycine, which also is supposed to reduce cortisol


Like here for example Vitamin A
Vitamin A (retinol derivatives) is an anti-cortisol agent

Here for example Glycine
Glycine Powerfully Lowers Cortisol


I will do my iron tests, I would doubt they are low, probably mediocre, but considering I am so well covered in certain areas with the fatty vitamins it still makes no sense why I experience these painful estrogenic symptoms or does it?

Still with all the A E D3 K2 MK4, magnesium, calcium, selenium, low caffeine, sweets, how would even the Estradiol even be possible to be that high saying it is a result of cortisol? From my understanding this should not be so, I can understand low androgens due to cortisol, but with so many anti-estrogens to have painful symptoms of estrogens I don't think it should be happening.

 

[YourUniverse]

Yeah, I mention I chicken liver rarely.

As I was saying I am taking Retinyl Palmiate topically, which is Vitamin A
I have taken even a bit of a largeer 40K IU dose but at that point I have noticed some headaches so I decided to do only 10K IU or 20K IU topically, which is quite low based on some, others would say do 100k IU, I would but I don't need the massive headaches.

Now with the amount of supplementation I take and the variety I am mentioning the original post I was not expecting any Estradiol issues that are so chronic
and obvious days at a time.

I was expecting even Vitamin A to reduce cortisol based on studies posted here on the forums.
I am even taking Vitamin C around 2grams every other day.
As I mentioned I even take Glycine, which also is supposed to reduce cortisol


Like here for example Vitamin A
Vitamin A (retinol derivatives) is an anti-cortisol agent

Here for example Glycine
Glycine Powerfully Lowers Cortisol


I will do my iron tests, I would doubt they are low, probably mediocre, but considering I am so well covered in certain areas with the fatty vitamins it still makes no sense why I experience these painful estrogenic symptoms or does it?

Still with all the A E D3 K2 MK4, magnesium, calcium, selenium, low caffeine, sweets, how would even the Estradiol even be possible to be that high saying it is a result of cortisol? From my understanding this should not be so, I can understand low androgens due to cortisol, but with so many anti-estrogens to have painful symptoms of estrogens I don't think it should be happening.

Whats your environment/life situation like? Is it stressful; are you in a period of adaptation?

 

[Kunstruct]

Lose bodyfat.
Seriously!
Impossible to have high E2 as lean male without using exogenous steroids.
Get lean as fast as possible, then move back to a sustainable diet. 24-48h fasts then OMAD refead high protein high carb. Rinse and repeat till you lean.

I am not sure how serious that is.
I have around 15% bodyfat as of now when I write this, this is an accumulation over some time not my state for years or something.
You are suggesting me to enter more cortisol production cycle?
I have a very hard time working out compared to previous months and of course much worse to previous years and it is getting worse as days go by.
For example I have done some squats 4 days ago with normal intensity, low volume, and even now my legs are sore and I am highly tired because of that. I do not feel that getting more stress would help. I am actually working out and realized it by now.
My TSH is at 1.4 mUI/L, in case someone would say I have an issue with this.

As for exogenous steroids, I have used maybe 10 times low dose DHEA and Pregnelonone recently which I have mentioned before. Other exogenous steroids I have not used so far in my life.

 

[YourUniverse]

I am not sure how serious that is.
I have around 15% bodyfat as of now when I write this, this is an accumulation over some time not my state for years or something.
You are suggesting me to enter more cortisol production cycle?
I have a very hard time working out compared to previous months and of course much worse to previous years and it is getting worse as days go by.
For example I have done some squats 4 days ago with normal intensity, low volume, and even now my legs are sore and I am highly tired because of that. I do not feel that getting more stress would help. I am actually working out and realized it by now.
My TSH is at 1.4 mUI/L, in case someone would say I have an issue with this.

As for exogenous steroids, I have used maybe 10 times low dose DHEA and Pregnelonone recently which I have mentioned before. Other exogenous steroids I have not used so far in my life.

We're all just trying to help - it does not appear that bodyfat% is the reason for your estrogen

 

[sebastian_r]

Yes I was serious, read in the first post high bodyfat high estradiol.

Solution for this is lower bodyfat.

But 15% is not all too much.

I'm not even sure anymore that you have high E2 / Estradiol. Those E2 symptoms are a tricky, high an low can easily be confused.

Your symptoms sound like low T and low E.

For example "One thing I would mention, Viagra or Cialis has zero effect on me, no matter the dosage or how much time I make sure to avoid food around taking the pills." this one is a classical low E2 symptom.

You could stop taking ALL supplements for a week and see what happens.

And go see a HRT specialist to check for hypogonadism, this is an unnormal too strong decline:

"Free Testosterone history, all around 8-9 AM
2016.04.22 - 55,4 pg/ml
2016.05.09 - 47,3 pg/ml
2017.01.13 - 20 pg/ml (DHT Over 2500 pg/mL, the clinic in Germany cannot test higher than 2500, only says over 2500)
2017.04.05 - 18 pg/ml (DHT 1120 pg/mL)
2017.06.12 - 15 pg/ml
2018.04.20 - 11,7 pg/ml
2018.09.03 - 8,98 pg/ml (DHT 667 pg/mL)"

Not recommending you going on TRT, but you need to get checked by somebody who knows what he's doing, not an family doctor.