How I Got Myself To Tolerate Starches Better

[Hans]

Some people do bad on milk and fruit and are left with little other than starches and meat. However, starches could also produce problems. I'm currently eating a lot of starches plus sugar and adequate protein with fat and I'm leaning out. I'm not sure if this is because I reduced my milk intake significantly. Anyways, starches were giving me some problems like being hungry 3 hours after eating, blurry vision, tiredness and a few other uncomfortable/annoying symptoms...

But here's how I solved the problem:

Stew/soup
Making stew/soup can significantly improve the digestion and absorption of the food, thus reducing gut irritation. It also makes meal prepping super easy. This might sound boring but I make a massive bowl of stew/soup and then divide it in 3-4 meals throughout the day and it works great. Especially for winter time.

Glycine
Endotoxins are always a concern no matter what kind of food you eat, but more so with starches. Glycine is a potent endotoxin receptor (TLR4) antagonist and I add about half a tsp per meal. This really helps me with recovery from workouts, reduces endotoxin symptoms, stabilizes blood sugar, reduces blurry vision, etc. Glycine also significantly lowers the insulinogenic effect of the meal and will help prevent blood sugar rollercoasters.

Sugar
Fructose has an insulin mimetic effect and can actually lower blood sugar levels. The "optimal" dose according to studies is around 10g per meal so I add 2tbsp of sugar per meal. This helps to lower the insulinogenic effect of the meal, it also promotes glucose uptake into cells, increases sugar oxidation significantly and improves glycogen storage.

Saturated fat
I mostly put in ground beef in my soup so I get a fair bit of saturated fat with each meal, but I also add stearic acid. The fats promote bile flow which helps to lower endotoxins, control gut bacteria, and the stearic acid has a nice thermogenic and cortisol lowering effect. Depending on how you respond to fat, fat can also help to stabilize blood sugar from a meal due to slower glucose absorption.

AC + CO + ACV + Cascara
Last but not least, if you really struggle with gut issues from starches, except for experimenting with different kinds of starches to see which you do best with, I would advise experimenting with activated charcoal + coconut oil + vinegar + cascara sagrada. If my gut doesn't feel optimal, that combo definitely sorts me out in no time. This is not to be used long term, but only to help sort out gut issues in the short term. The longest I used it was for 2 weeks twice a day. Nowadays I only use it once a day and once in a blue moon if I feel I need it.

Edit: I've done a post (9 Ways to speed up glycogen resynthesis post-workout) on speeding up glycogen synthesis after a workout, but it's also applicable for those that just want to increase their glycogen stores regardless if they train or not.

 

[Cirion]

Good post. I follow a lot of this myself. My heaviest starch meal (at night) I have with home made jello (gelatin, honey and OJ) so both sugar and gelatin. I might play with some of the last bullet point recommendations too. Only thing I don't really ascribe to is the fats, but that's probably just because my metabolism is so F'd that the randle cycle hits me like a mack truck, such that I have to eat a zero (almost) fat diet to not run into RC issues.

 

[Inaut]

good thread once again @Hans.

Thanks

 

[Hans]

Good post. I follow a lot of this myself. My heaviest starch meal (at night) I have with home made jello (gelatin, honey and OJ) so both sugar and gelatin. I might play with some of the last bullet point recommendations too. Only thing I don't really ascribe to is the fats, but that's probably just because my metabolism is so F'd that the randle cycle hits me like a mack truck, such that I have to eat a zero (almost) fat diet to not run into RC issues.

I also experimented with low fat for a while and then though I want to experiment with higher fat again to see if I feel more androgenic and if I would gain weight or not. I think my satiety, energy, temps, androgens, etc., do feel better and I'm not gaining weight, except muscle though. I'm not going nuts on fat though, still below 100g, mostly around 80g.

Have you done an OGTT or checked your fasting glucose and insulin?

 

[Cirion]

I also experimented with low fat for a while and then though I want to experiment with higher fat again to see if I feel more androgenic and if I would gain weight or not. I think my satiety, energy, temps, androgens, etc., do feel better and I'm not gaining weight, except muscle though. I'm not going nuts on fat though, still below 100g, mostly around 80g.

Have you done an OGTT or checked your fasting glucose and insulin?

The problem is unless you wanna live on MCT oil and hydrogenated coconut oil, it's hard to keep PUFA low while on a diet of 80-100 gram fat. And I don't do well on MCT oil and HCO, sooo... yeah.

What's OGTT? I am sure my glucose and insulin levels are probably quite FUBAR even without testing for them lol.

My current experiment is like 1,000 gram carb but virtually zero fat (Trying to see if I can get under 10 gram a day). Am at about 10-20 gram a day now, until I can find some 98% lean beef (96% currently). Extremely high calorie (4-5k a day) is the only way to sleep through the night without frequent urination, as well as not feel like crap in the morning etc. However, 4-5k calorie with anything more than 20 gram of fat makes me gain weight, so that's why I'm trying this 1000 carb experiment for a bit to see how it goes. Last night I slept 9 hr without one nightly urination, which is huge for me, so we shall see.

 

[Vinny]

Thank you @Hans

 

[Hans]

The problem is unless you wanna live on MCT oil and hydrogenated coconut oil, it's hard to keep PUFA low while on a diet of 80-100 gram fat. And I don't do well on MCT oil and HCO, sooo... yeah.

What's OGTT? I am sure my glucose and insulin levels are probably quite FUBAR even without testing for them lol.

My current experiment is like 1,000 gram carb but virtually zero fat (Trying to see if I can get under 10 gram a day). Am at about 10-20 gram a day now, until I can find some 98% lean beef (96% currently). Extremely high calorie (4-5k a day) is the only way to sleep through the night without frequent urination, as well as not feel like crap in the morning etc. However, 4-5k calorie with anything more than 20 gram of fat makes me gain weight, so that's why I'm trying this 1000 carb experiment for a bit to see how it goes. Last night I slept 9 hr without one nightly urination, which is huge for me, so we shall see.

My PUFA intake is about 4g so I'm not so worried about that.

OGTT - oral glucose tolerance test. By testing you know where you are and then you can make dietary changes to see if you are going in the right direction.

I know you're against supplements, but some have been shown to significantly benefit certain conditions, so if you know on what to focus, maybe you can get 1-2 supplements to get you there.

Thank you @Hans

 

[Cirion]

I have read many anecdotal success stories around these forums. The vast majority of them show that tolerance to dietary fats increases as you get leaner. You are very lean, and I'm not surprised for you that you find success with some fats. One of my favorite anecdotes I like to refer to is Zachs, a former member here. He did a fat and pufa depletion diet (zero fat) until he got lean, then found he felt better introducing some fats. One of my friends/coaches did the exact same thing, so it seems to be replicate-able. So, I do think some fats is part of an optimal diet-but only once you're already lean and PUFA depleted. Westside-PUFA's, another guy who no longer seems to post here-same deal. Lots of people following this strategy. There is only one or two people I know here that got lean eating fatty foods, Nathan hatch being one -- but I honestly think he only pulled it off because he had a heavy supplementation stack of things like thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone etc... The only way I have seen from stories around here that anyone gets lean from high fat diet is caloric restriction. But yeah, 4g pufa is not bad. But you can't get down to only 4g with 100g fat without some things like hydrogenated coconut oil, which I don't tolerate (Gives me painful bowel movements). What supplements did you have in mind?

 

[Hans]

I have read many anecdotal success stories around these forums. The vast majority of them show that tolerance to dietary fats increases as you get leaner. You are very lean, and I'm not surprised for you that you find success with some fats. One of my favorite anecdotes I like to refer to is Zachs, a former member here. He did a fat and pufa depletion diet (zero fat) until he got lean, then found he felt better introducing some fats. One of my friends/coaches did the exact same thing, so it seems to be replicate-able. So, I do think some fats is part of an optimal diet-but only once you're already lean and PUFA depleted. Westside-PUFA's, another guy who no longer seems to post here-same deal. Lots of people following this strategy. There is only one or two people I know here that got lean eating fatty foods, Nathan hatch being one -- but I honestly think he only pulled it off because he had a heavy supplementation stack of things like thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone etc... The only way I have seen from stories around here that anyone gets lean from high fat diet is caloric restriction. But yeah, 4g pufa is not bad. But you can't get down to only 4g with 100g fat without some things like hydrogenated coconut oil, which I don't tolerate (Gives me painful bowel movements). What supplements did you have in mind?

To be honest I was drinking lots of milk with sugar and some fruits a while ago and I was gaining fat around my midsection and I wasn't even eating a lot. I thought it was the sugar, but after reducing my milk and keeping the sugar in the diet I started to lean out while eating more. I was rather pleasantly surprised lol. My fats also increased after cutting the milk. The only fat I get is from the meat itself and the little bit of stearic acid I add.

I'm not trying to persuade you to eat more fat but I think foods might have a more potent effect on someone than the macros, although macros are still important.

For supplements, well it depends on what you want to fix. For example, if it's to improve insulin sensitivity, check you fasting blood sugar and then maybe try niacinamide or aspirin with a carb meal to block lipolysis. Cinnamon, DHEA, biotin, glycine, etc., can help to increase glucose uptake into cells.
So maybe try 1 supplement for a month and see if it helped you or not, then keep building from there.

 

[Cirion]

To be honest I was drinking lots of milk with sugar and some fruits a while ago and I was gaining fat around my midsection and I wasn't even eating a lot. I thought it was the sugar, but after reducing my milk and keeping the sugar in the diet I started to lean out while eating more. I was rather pleasantly surprised lol. My fats also increased after cutting the milk. The only fat I get is from the meat itself and the little bit of stearic acid I add.

I'm not trying to persuade you to eat more fat but I think foods might have a more potent effect on someone than the macros, although macros are still important.

For supplements, well it depends on what you want to fix. For example, if it's to improve insulin sensitivity, check you fasting blood sugar and then maybe try niacinamide or aspirin with a carb meal to block lipolysis. Cinnamon, DHEA, biotin, glycine, etc., can help to increase glucose uptake into cells.
So maybe try 1 supplement for a month and see if it helped you or not, then keep building from there.

I gotcha, not trying to be argumentative, just making conversation, as I always enjoy these discussions. Yeah, I tried some low-fat milk for a while and just didn't like it. Turns out I am extremely sensitive to tryptophan. So, I agree, macros aren't the full picture - the foods that fit those macros matter also. Just to give you an idea how bad tryptophan can be, I've gained upwards of three pounds overnight simply by adding 100 calories of no-fat cheese to my evening meal of potatoes. That is just insane. So the key is to eat foods you can tolerate. This also lets you eat more food and not get fat. I think the ultimate diet is the one that lets you eat extreme high calories and not get fat, because high calories reduces stress like crazy (As long as the foods don't cause stress).

 

[Hans]

I gotcha, not trying to be argumentative, just making conversation, as I always enjoy these discussions. Yeah, I tried some low-fat milk for a while and just didn't like it. Turns out I am extremely sensitive to tryptophan. So, I agree, macros aren't the full picture - the foods that fit those macros matter also. Just to give you an idea how bad tryptophan can be, I've gained upwards of three pounds overnight simply by adding 100 calories of no-fat cheese to my evening meal of potatoes. That is just insane. So the key is to eat foods you can tolerate. This also lets you eat more food and not get fat. I think the ultimate diet is the one that lets you eat extreme high calories and not get fat, because high calories reduces stress like crazy (As long as the foods don't cause stress).

Totally agree.

 

[TripleOG]

To be honest I was drinking lots of milk with sugar and some fruits a while ago and I was gaining fat around my midsection and I wasn't even eating a lot. I thought it was the sugar, but after reducing my milk and keeping the sugar in the diet I started to lean out while eating more. I was rather pleasantly surprised lol. My fats also increased after cutting the milk. The only fat I get is from the meat itself and the little bit of stearic acid I add.

Do you supplement calcium and gelatin/glycine to balance out the phosphorous and muscle meat aminos ?

 

[Hans]

Do you supplement calcium and gelatin/glycine to balance out the phosphorous and muscle meat aminos ?

Yes to both. I use egg shell calcium and just pure glycine.

 

[meatbag]

To be honest I was drinking lots of milk with sugar and some fruits a while ago and I was gaining fat around my midsection and I wasn't even eating a lot. I thought it was the sugar, but after reducing my milk and keeping the sugar in the diet I started to lean out while eating more. I was rather pleasantly surprised lol. My fats also increased after cutting the milk. The only fat I get is from the meat itself and the little bit of stearic acid I add.

I'm not trying to persuade you to eat more fat but I think foods might have a more potent effect on someone than the macros, although macros are still important.

For supplements, well it depends on what you want to fix. For example, if it's to improve insulin sensitivity, check you fasting blood sugar and then maybe try niacinamide or aspirin with a carb meal to block lipolysis. Cinnamon, DHEA, biotin, glycine, etc., can help to increase glucose uptake into cells.
So maybe try 1 supplement for a month and see if it helped you or not, then keep building from there.

what percent milkfat were you drinking?

 

[Hans]

what percent milkfat were you drinking?

Mostly skim milk. I now use only a small amount of low fat in my coffee.

 

[meatbag]

Mostly skim milk. I now use only a small amount of low fat in my coffee.

So when you switched your protein source from skim milk to meat you had reduced bodyweight or bodyfat percentage?

 

[Hans]

So when you switched your protein source from skim milk to meat you had reduced bodyweight or bodyfat percentage?

Reduced body fat and continued to increase muscle.

 

[Cirion]

Reduced body fat and continued to increase muscle.

Good stuff. Funny, we are both basically coming to the same conclusions at the same time lol, I also switched from milk to meat. Beef is awesome.

 

[meatbag]

Reduced body fat and continued to increase muscle.

impressive, what do you think is the cause?

 

[Hans]

Good stuff. Funny, we are both basically coming to the same conclusions at the same time lol, I also switched from milk to meat. Beef is awesome.

Yeah beef is great. I wanted to believe I could do good on milk, but seems I have to limit it.

impressive, what do you think is the cause?

Could be higher tryptophan thus higher serotonin. The milk could also have irritated my gut too much in high quantities. Low B3. Too much calcium? Too little Mg and Mn. Bad quality of cows or nutrient degeneration due to UHT pasteurisation. Don't really know as it could be a few things, some we don't even know of yet. A calorie is not a calories.