Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

[m_arch]

]Im done here sharing my opinions, I just get upset when people come to a forum which the subject matter is not in agreement with their own opinions, and post anyways. Almost comparable to an athiest posting his or her ideas on a Christian forum... You see where Im getting at? Your opinions are important, and make you the person who you are, which is good, and you could be correct, but why come to a forum that is based off the work of a man in which you dont agree with? seems quite bizarre to me. I have seen this slowly happen to this forum over the years, where more and more come and state that they think Ray is wrong.. Then why come and post here?? I think my time on this forum is closely coming to an end.

I'd say TYW ideas are in agreement with Ray's opinions generally speaking. Maybe not 100%, but is that whats really important here? I'd say people are here because they want to improve their health.

TYW offers an interesting well-researched interpretation on health and longevity. I think he is a very valued member of this forum. A lot of athiests and christians have a very dogmatic "this is just the way it is. if it doesn't work for you, that's your fault" type of view - health is a very complicated thing. Going low fat doesn't work for me - TYW offers an idea as to why. Other Ray Peat ideas do work for me. No one really knows for sure, we're all trying to work things out. The more people trying, the better.

Why would you leave the forum because someone might slightly disagree with you or Ray? Why do you think you get that upset about it?

 

[Orion]

Im done here sharing my opinions

Just wanted to add your comments helped me alot, hope you stick around.

 

[Drareg]

(a) very difficult - Nothing worth while in life is easy. I have been eating under 2 grams of pufa for a long time ( years ) its actually not that hard.
(b) obviously leads to some issues in many people over the long run. - No not obviously, hardly anybody has done it, and the ones who have get great results, like myself, haidut, and Ray.
(c) not guaranteed to actually lead to a PUFA depleted state (as measured by mitochondrial PUFA concentrations, of which human studies are basically non-existent, and whereby animal studies don't hold much weight for reasons I've discussed). - Just because there are lacking studies doesn't mean it cant be done, thats silly thinking imo. If everyone had that mentality in life nothing new would be proven or discovered, and our understanding of everything would immediately stay where it is and be stagnant, or if people thought your way in the beginning, we would know nothing about anything. What your saying could be true, but is highly unlikely based on the studies of other mammals, and a few human experiences. When doing something that has never been done before there is always uncertainty.
(d) there is still doubt about whether a PUFA depleted state is beneficial for Humans in particular (see my comments about species-specificity). - You have doubt... Ray doesnt have doubt and others who have stuck with a low pufa diet much much longer than you have no doubt.

It is then important to recognise that any success of short term no fat dieting cannot be extrapolated to the period of weight maintenance after that fat is lost. - Nobody that im aware of who has eaten very low pufa for years eats a no fat diet. I get around 10% total fat but could get much more through hydrogenated coconut oil. Ray has mentioned he averages about 60 grams per day. Im done here sharing my opinions, I just get upset when people come to a forum which the subject matter is not in agreement with their own opinions, and post anyways. Almost comparable to an athiest posting his or her ideas on a Christian forum... You see where Im getting at? Your opinions are important, and make you the person who you are, which is good, and you could be correct, but why come to a forum that is based off the work of a man in which you dont agree with? seems quite bizarre to me. I have seen this slowly happen to this forum over the years, where more and more come and state that they think Ray is wrong.. Then why come and post here?? I think my time on this forum is closely coming to an end.

I only noticed your last paragraph now,stick around, we need more members who read Ray Peats work.
The whole point is to refute the points you don't agree with,its a strawman when he claims he doesn't agree with Peat,particularly when you don't offer us the quotes from Peat when you feel he was recommending people do not consume PUFA at all,it a ridiculous thing to say when we know he recommends oyster and the like.
Peat speaks in terms of ideals, for example it would be possible to live very well without PUFA if we had easier more practical access to the required lifestyle for this,the evidence they provide to say no you need some in the diet is one sided and not irrefutable,far from it.

 

[amethyst]

(a) very difficult - Nothing worth while in life is easy. I have been eating under 2 grams of pufa for a long time ( years ) its actually not that hard.
(b) obviously leads to some issues in many people over the long run. - No not obviously, hardly anybody has done it, and the ones who have get great results, like myself, haidut, and Ray.
(c) not guaranteed to actually lead to a PUFA depleted state (as measured by mitochondrial PUFA concentrations, of which human studies are basically non-existent, and whereby animal studies don't hold much weight for reasons I've discussed). - Just because there are lacking studies doesn't mean it cant be done, thats silly thinking imo. If everyone had that mentality in life nothing new would be proven or discovered, and our understanding of everything would immediately stay where it is and be stagnant, or if people thought your way in the beginning, we would know nothing about anything. What your saying could be true, but is highly unlikely based on the studies of other mammals, and a few human experiences. When doing something that has never been done before there is always uncertainty.
(d) there is still doubt about whether a PUFA depleted state is beneficial for Humans in particular (see my comments about species-specificity). - You have doubt... Ray doesnt have doubt and others who have stuck with a low pufa diet much much longer than you have no doubt.

It is then important to recognise that any success of short term no fat dieting cannot be extrapolated to the period of weight maintenance after that fat is lost. - Nobody that im aware of who has eaten very low pufa for years eats a no fat diet. I get around 10% total fat but could get much more through hydrogenated coconut oil. Ray has mentioned he averages about 60 grams per day. Im done here sharing my opinions, I just get upset when people come to a forum which the subject matter is not in agreement with their own opinions, and post anyways. Almost comparable to an athiest posting his or her ideas on a Christian forum... You see where Im getting at? Your opinions are important, and make you the person who you are, which is good, and you could be correct, but why come to a forum that is based off the work of a man in which you dont agree with? seems quite bizarre to me. I have seen this slowly happen to this forum over the years, where more and more come and state that they think Ray is wrong.. Then why come and post here?? I think my time on this forum is closely coming to an end.

Might you be having a knee jerk reaction to tyw's posts?

 

[What-a-Riot]

does anyone know whether adipose linoleic acid can be released and repurposed toward its EFA purposes (cardiolipin, whatever else)?

 

[paymanz]

does anyone know whether adipose linoleic acid can be released and repurposed toward its EFA purposes (cardiolipin, whatever else)?

yes , of curse! lipolysis > free fatty acids

other guys correct it , maybe it have to be triglycerides to do those EFA purposes?!

 

[Sicutnoxsilente]

Is eating a handful of pumpkin seeds a day that bad? I'm on a PUFA- free diet but I'm also on a vegetarian diet so I eat pumpkin seeds for the zinc, is eating a few of them a day a big deal health-wise?

 

[Capt Nirvana]

I thought this deserved it's own thread.

And, rarely mentioned, why do omega 3 oils ~always~ lead to waxy yellow fat disease (progressive lipofuscinosis)? Even vitamin E doesn't protect fish from perishing from it; that's why fish farmers use a Monsanto product (Ethoxyquin).

 

[Momado965]

I eat pretty much what I want with the restrictions of avoiding PUFA, starch and legumes. Pretty much everything else is fair game and I found that once PUFA stores got very low not even beer can give me estrogenic symptoms any more. When I can't avoid PUFA due to travel, or relatives forcing me to eat what they have cooked, I eat a tbsp. of coconut oil with every meal to balance the PUFA. I don't even take niacinamide on a daily basis any more, only as needed if I feel endotoxin coming (say from eating bean casserole prepared by a relative).

I have this theory of pufa evening out on past very low pufa days whenever I have, say, a day of eating too much and pufa reaching 7g. I ration out total pufa/week divided by days. Has that been your experience and in terms of 'low pufa stores' as well?

 

[haidut]

I have this theory of pufa evening out on past very low pufa days whenever I have, say, a day of eating too much and pufa reaching 7g. I ration out total pufa/week divided by days. Has that been your experience and in terms of 'low pufa stores' as well?

The monkey study on 30-day PUFA depletion showed that even a single day of high PUFA diet quickly replenishes stores.

 

[kevinjohore]

The monkey study on 30-day PUFA depletion showed that even a single day of high PUFA diet quickly replenishes stores.

Mike Adams, the Health Ranger likes to run stories that make strident claims. This morning, his newsletter cited a study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, claiming that levels of the fatty acid omega-6, which can be found in vegetable oils, were associated to better heart health.

"The study was carried out by a team of researchers from the University of Eastern Finland. The team looked at the blood fatty acid levels of 2,480 men aged from 42 to 60 years at the beginning of the study. The team then conducted follow up tests on the participants for an average of 22 years, during which 1,143 men died due to various diseases. The researchers split the participants into five various groups according to their blood linoleic acid level. Linoleic acid is the most common polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid.

Results of the study revealed that a high level of linoleic acid, a common omega-6 fatty acid, led to a 43 percent lower risk of premature death in comparison to those with the lowest level. The researchers also highlighted that omega-6 fatty acids promote the production of anti-inflammatory compounds.

Adam's Natural News article is entitled:
Eating nuts and seeds found to cut your risk of premature death by HALF
(Sorry, us newbies are not allowed to post links.)

QUESTION: How do the claims made in this study concur with what we know about Omega -6 PUFAs?

 

[Momado965]

The monkey study on 30-day PUFA depletion showed that even a single day of high PUFA diet quickly replenishes stores.

Oh wow! You mean 7g of pufa doesn't even out as 1g a day in hypothetical terms? When you say stores I imagine a literal storage space hence relating my experience. A year or so ago I found even if I do eat pufa it takes time for estrogenic effects to manifest which at the time I concluded there must be a storage complex going on.

 

[haidut]

Oh wow! You mean 7g of pufa doesn't even out as 1g a day in hypothetical terms? When you say stores I imagine a literal storage space hence relating my experience. A year or so ago I found even if I do eat pufa it takes time for estrogenic effects to manifest which at the time I concluded there must be a storage complex going on.

You have to check the study for how much they ate but I think the "replenishment" occurred since the monkeys were given free access to high-PUFA food so they probably ate a lot more than 7g in a single day.

 

[Glassy]

Oh wow! You mean 7g of pufa doesn't even out as 1g a day in hypothetical terms? When you say stores I imagine a literal storage space hence relating my experience. A year or so ago I found even if I do eat pufa it takes time for estrogenic effects to manifest which at the time I concluded there must be a storage complex going on.

Are you trying to deplete your stores of PUFA?

Think of a gallon of water in a large jug that has been heavily tinted red by food colouring. Every day you pull a cup of water out and put some water back in. If the water you put back in is less tinted than the water in your gallon then the water will eventually appear clear. The clearer the water you put in, the sooner the gallon will appear clear (but it will still take a long time to clear). If you reduce the amount of water you return to the jug, the overall amount of red dye in the water will be decreased but the water will appear minimally clearer (ie very low fat diet). When you start putting more cleanish water back in returning the jug to it’s near original level, the red colouring will be quickly diluted and may even appear clear (there is still red colouring but the concentration is very low). In this cleared state it requires only a small amount of tainted water to taint the whole gallon again.

How are you getting the 7g of PUFA?

 

[ddjd]

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