Good Supplement/Pharm For Muscle Gain That Does NOT Cause:

[redsun]

There is literally a study done with non-athletes that did exercise with/without creatine and the creatine group had higher measured levels of DHT.

Well if you find it feel free to share.

 

[ShotTrue]

In a 2006 study, researchers measured the effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine, a popular muscle enhancer, on metrics of power, strength, body composition, and hormone levels. Scientists recruited 33 male subjects and randomly assigned them to one of three groups. The first group consumed creatine, the second creatine plus beta-alanine, and the third a placebo. All three groups were asked to participate in regular resistance-training as well.

In the subjects that took only the creatine supplement, their testosterone concentrations increased from 20.0 nmol/L to 24.4 nmol/L. This is equivalent to 577 ng/dL to 704 ng/dL 13 This change is statistically significant and represents a 22% increase. No other statistically significant changes were noted in hormone levels in any of the three groups before and after the intervention. However, researchers also noted that the testosterone to cortisol ratio- a key metric of recovery measured in InsideTracker’s Ultimate Plan- increased from 52.4 prior to the intervention to 66.4 after the intervention. 13 The scientists couldn’t explain entirely why these differences and trends were observed

13. Hoffman, Jay R., et al. "Effect of Creatine and β‐Alanine Supplementation on Performance and Endocrine Responses in Strength/Power Athletes: 1120: 9: 45 AM–10: 00 AM." Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 38.5 (2006): S126.

I'll try to find the other study I'm thinking of that showed a DHT increase that wasn't the rugby one. Here is one where testosterone increased only in the creatine group

 

[Luckytype]

There are multiple studies done where people trained with and without creatine and those with creatine had an increase in DHT. I don't think I've ever met someone who took creatine without training, and like I said I haven't seen anything disproving it raising DHT without congruent training

Again, its training capacity that does it. If youve done enough of your own researching on DHT you know that tension across length, adrenal response and overall "sTreSSors" of training increase several response hormones, including DHT.

If there are studies showing creatine by itself does it, please show me

 

[ShotTrue]

Again, its training capacity that does it. If youve done enough of your own researching on DHT you know that tension across length, adrenal response and overall "sTreSSors" of training increase several response hormones, including DHT.

If there are studies showing creatine by itself does it, please show me

There are no studies showing it doesn't increase DHT without training. Regardless, the better point is that DHT is reliably shown to increase DHT when training. Train without creatine? You'll have less DHT

 

[ShotTrue]

Practical Aspects of Hair Transplantation in Asians

If you look at the link, the amino acids in creatine raise IGF-1 which raises DHT creation. In addition to IGF-1 increase, arginine directly affects DHT.
I'm going to hypothesize from this data that ingesting creatine -> ingestion of amino acids -> amino acids directly increase DHT post consumption.
So exercise isn't needed to see an increase in DHT from creatine use

 

[Luckytype]

Practical Aspects of Hair Transplantation in Asians

View attachment 13198

If you look at the link, the amino acids in creatine raise IGF-1 which raises DHT creation. In addition to IGF-1 increase, arginine directly affects DHT.
I'm going to hypothesize from this data that ingesting creatine -> ingestion of amino acids -> amino acids directly increase DHT post consumption.
So exercise isn't needed to see an increase in DHT from creatine use

There should be a single study, at least one, maybe two out there. This is good thinking but hypothesizing is to prove or disprove.

While i cant disagree with objective physiology until someone shows this in a population, it doesnt applicably exist.

 

[Luckytype]

And let me just say im a big proponent of creatine in performance. I have nothing against it but for as little as it costs i absolutely wouldnt waste my money if not using it for training unless someone was experimenting with the ATP buffering side of it

 

[bluefish]

First off you need a good diet. Enough protein and fats and high carbs. Food should be from whole foods preferably. You'll have to eat a good diet consistently for about a month to adapt and improve and then you can consider supplements. If your diet is on point you can make gains supplements can't give you.

Just because you are getting hair loss from creatine indicates that your metabolism and hormones ain't optimal.

Supplements that can help you adapt to your diet and improve the metabolism is B-vits, especially B1, B2 and B3 and also glycine.

Super complex question... feel silly asking it... but, what do you suggest for diet? I was doing Tim Ferris style "slow-carb" for about a half year... then not similar but not so strict. Ive been trying to improve my diet (successfully) this last year, but am still definitely looking for pointers and guidelines still.

 

[Hans]

Super complex question... feel silly asking it... but, what do you suggest for diet? I was doing Tim Ferris style "slow-carb" for about a half year... then not similar but not so strict. Ive been trying to improve my diet (successfully) this last year, but am still definitely looking for pointers and guidelines still.

Well when it comes to building muscle, protein (at least 1.6g/kg/BW) and carbs (depending on your weight and training program, but 300g is a good start) are most important. If you do the slow carb diet, maybe have some higher GI foods before and after your workout for good energy and optimal glycogen stores. Starches or veggies are not required to build muscle but some people feel better with it in the diet.
Saturated fats and cholesterol are important. Whole foods, such as full cream milk or whole eggs are better for hypertrophy than skim milk or egg whites.

I basically advocate what works for you. If it's chicken, then have chicken. If its red meat, have red meat. Don't force foods that doesn't work.

Hope that answers your question. Feel free to ask if you want me to elaborate more.

 

[ShotTrue]

Well when it comes to building muscle, protein (at least 1.6g/kg/BW) and carbs (depending on your weight and training program, but 300g is a good start) are most important. If you do the slow carb diet, maybe have some higher GI foods before and after your workout for good energy and optimal glycogen stores. Starches or veggies are not required to build muscle but some people feel better with it in the diet.
Saturated fats and cholesterol are important. Whole foods, such as full cream milk or whole eggs are better for hypertrophy than skim milk or egg whites.

I basically advocate what works for you. If it's chicken, then have chicken. If its red meat, have red meat. Don't force foods that doesn't work.

Hope that answers your question. Feel free to ask if you want me to elaborate more.

By full cream milk do you mean whole fat milk or milk that has actual cream in it, something more like half and half?

 

[ShotTrue]

Carbs are your main energy source and like @Hans 300 grams is a good start. I read a sport's nutritionists diet plan and for athletes they start the plan with a flat amount of high carbs to eat and then partition the protein and fat after the fact.

 

[Hans]

By full cream milk do you mean whole fat milk or milk that has actual cream in it, something more like half and half?

Yeah whole fat, like 3.5% fat. Half and half is too much fat :).

 

[LiveWire]

Well when it comes to building muscle, protein (at least 1.6g/kg/BW) and carbs (depending on your weight and training program, but 300g is a good start) are most important. If you do the slow carb diet, maybe have some higher GI foods before and after your workout for good energy and optimal glycogen stores. Starches or veggies are not required to build muscle but some people feel better with it in the diet.
Saturated fats and cholesterol are important. Whole foods, such as full cream milk or whole eggs are better for hypertrophy than skim milk or egg whites.

I basically advocate what works for you. If it's chicken, then have chicken. If its red meat, have red meat. Don't force foods that doesn't work.

Hope that answers your question. Feel free to ask if you want me to elaborate more.

I enjoy your posts.

Where could the problem be, in general terms, if high protein and high simple carb generate more belly fat than muscles? Am I overblowing calories, or not working out enough (twice a week)?

 

[Luckytype]

I enjoy your posts.

Where could the problem be, in general terms, if high protein and high simple carb generate more belly fat than muscles? Am I overblowing calories, or not working out enough (twice a week)?

Chances are the balance of your meals overall. When overreached in a session some people will complain of "belly fat" which actually is fluid retention that may or may not be estrogen driven. Estrogen is a LOADED word on this forum as is stress but it could be the body being angry from not having enough food before or after, especially if you are compromised.

That said, proper training for you and food that works for you, which is on you to learn, is the best route. Youll notice considerably better progress having a set amount of fat for your fat sols and then finding a good protein number(which will probably be 130-180g or around that) and filling the rest with carbohydrate being careful never to forget mineral intakes.

 

[Hans]

I enjoy your posts.

Where could the problem be, in general terms, if high protein and high simple carb generate more belly fat than muscles? Am I overblowing calories, or not working out enough (twice a week)?

Well how much calories are you eating? Macros?

 

[RisingSun]

Does anyone know of a good Supplement for Muscle Gain that does NOT cause:

Hairloss
Acne
Bloated Face
Suppress T

Androsterone messes with my hairline
Creatine causes acne and messes with hairline, as well as bloats face
SARMS suppress Testosterone, otherwise I would take it. And for whatever reason, SARMS cause me to bloat in my face which is not supposed to happen.
HGH obviously a no no.

Anyone know of anything? I take 5mg's of K, calcium, A, E, D, taurine, zinc.

Would you elaborate on why HGH is a no?

Natural growth hormone pulse amplification by Mk 677 supplementation works rather well and quick as far as building muscle and recovering from workouts are concerned.

 

[olive]

Would you elaborate on why HGH is a no?

Natural growth hormone pulse amplification by Mk 677 supplementation works rather well and quick as far as building muscle and recovering from workouts are concerned.

I’ve debunked your GH claims already. Exogenous GH has no benefit for muscle growth and only leads to insulin resistance. It’s only worth the risk if you are deificient in GH, aka elderly or a sufferer of a pituitary issue.
MK-677 has so many issues it’s outright dangerous to recommend. Insulin resistance, permanent depression, anxiety, fear conditioning, potential for neurological damage.

Here’s another study I’ve since come across to add to the insult.
A ghrelin–growth hormone axis drives stress-induced vulnerability to enhanced fear

Please stop recommending this dangerous chemical.

 

[Jing]

I’ve debunked your GH claims already. Exogenous GH has no benefit for muscle growth and only leads to insulin resistance. It’s only worth the risk if you are deificient in GH, aka elderly or a sufferer of a pituitary issue.
MK-677 has so many issues it’s outright dangerous to recommend. Insulin resistance, permanent depression, anxiety, fear conditioning, potential for neurological damage.

Here’s another study I’ve since come across to add to the insult.
A ghrelin–growth hormone axis drives stress-induced vulnerability to enhanced fear

Please stop recommending this dangerous chemical.

Without mk677 I wouldn't be able to eat more than 2000 calories a day not even 2000 sometimes and feel sick all day .. I've been using mk677 for months I think you are exaggerating abit.

 

[olive]

Without mk677 I wouldn't be able to eat more than 2000 calories a day not even 2000 sometimes and feel sick all day .. I've been using mk677 for months I think you are exaggerating abit.

Your bandaiding the underlying issue with a potential dangerous drug. I won’t tell you what to do but I think it’s important you understand that.

 

[Jing]

Your bandaiding the underlying issue with a potential dangerous drug. I won’t tell you what to do but I think it’s important you understand that.

It's better than not eating ..