Facial Width-to-Height (fWHR) Ratio

[rei]

Astonishing bollocks, downs persons have a very high ratio and according to this thread they are alpha...

 

[AJC]

I

the average intermolar width of humans has decreased (narrowing of the face)
the average intermolar width of people in more developed countries averages around 29-34 milimeters
people of all ethnicities had intermolar widths in the low 50s thousands of years ago

improper tongue posture has had an astoundingly significant impact on facial width
watch this video, the whole thing

Wow, I jammed my tongue up while watching this, and immediately felt more space in my nasal-maxillary area. I kept the tongue there for a few seconds to feel the feeling and immediately started smiling. Very cool

 

[AJC]

Is there an easy way to measure intermolar width? I guess I could ask my dentist/hygienist next time i'm in there

Use a tape measure and do it in front of a mirror.

 

[RedStaR]

Astonishing bollocks, downs persons have a very high ratio and according to this thread they are alpha...

Babies have a very high ratio as well. Testosterone (and estrogen) stunt the growth of the midface vertically, it is characterized by midface compression and ideally compensated through forward growth instead, while the rest of the skull growth peripherally, hence the high fWHR.

It is a marker for neoteny in some instances (high E women, infants, down's syndrome...), and dominance in others (high T men, flanged primates).

You also need to determine the lower face height/total height, and the position of the eyebrows in the context of fWHR.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

the average intermolar width of humans has decreased (narrowing of the face)
the average intermolar width of people in more developed countries averages around 29-34 milimeters
people of all ethnicities had intermolar widths in the low 50s thousands of years ago

improper tongue posture has had an astoundingly significant impact on facial width
watch this video, the whole thing

Yes I know that. midface width to height ratio is still mediated by testosterone.

 

[RedStaR]

Yes I know that. midface width to height ratio is still mediated by testosterone.

Typically, you'd want a midface ratio of 0.9-1.0

 

[snowboard111]

Typically, you'd want a midface ratio of 0.9-1.0

Or what ?

 

[RedStaR]

Or what ?

Higher is more feminine, lower is underdeveloped.

 

[AretnaP]

Yes I know that. midface width to height ratio is still mediated by testosterone.

androgens (DHT especially) are really only going to put more bone on the zygos, they do affect FWHR, but only in this way

other than that tongue strength and posture matters more and keep the maxilla from dropping

 

[BigYellowLemon]

I have a recessed maxilla as Dr. Mike Mew calls it.

I have swallowed wrong all my life, I use my cheeks to swallow instead of pressing my tongue upwards on the palate, which is the way you should swallow.

In addition I mouth breath at night and have bruxism. I always try to breath through the nose during the day though when I am awake.

As a result my maxilla has fallen downwards, the actual maxilla has gone downwards and the angle has also gone downwards.

Which has caused my lower jaw to swing downwards and backwards as well, in order for the lower jaw to stay attached to the maxilla at the joint it must move downwards with it.

My upper jaw also suffers from slight crowding - one tooth has flared outwards tremendously.

And I have a pretty bad overbite.

Overall it is not optimal.

I will be making some simple headgear soon, and wearing it for as long as possible every day. I am confident it will change the structure of my face as well as widening the jaw.

Basically it will be a flat material covered in cloth in the shape of my hard palate. Attached to it by glue will be like 4-6 metal wires with hooks on the other end. These hooks will be attached to strong rubber bands, and these rubber bands will then be attached to a non-stretchy wool hat on the top of my head. because there is space between my teeth when the front teeth are aligned, the metal hooks have a space to go through,

The goal is upwards force, outwards force (to expand the palate), and slight forward force. But mostly upwards and outwards. The upwards force should move the maxilla forwards as well.

I don't think having correct tongue posture as an adult will cause the changes we desire. It will help but it won't be enough. At this point we need constant strong force.

I think even in a fully grown adult, regardless of age, facegear would expand the palate. The bones of the skull and face are unlike the long bones, the skull/face bones borders don't stop growing like the long bones do.

Supplements like aspirin and vitamin K might help, but I have no idea how big a difference they would make on their own.

I will post a picture when I make the facegear. It should be extremely cheap, no more then $40, probably far less.

Dr. Mike Mew's work is revolutionary. He puts 99% of dentists to shame. They are so hyperfocused on the smile and making sure the teeth are aligned and look pretty. They seem to have very little idea of the facial bones.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Babies have a very high ratio as well. Testosterone (and estrogen) stunt the growth of the midface vertically, it is characterized by midface compression and ideally compensated through forward growth instead, while the rest of the skull growth peripherally, hence the high fWHR.

It is a marker for neoteny in some instances (high E women, infants, down's syndrome...), and dominance in others (high T men, flanged primates).

You also need to determine the lower face height/total height, and the position of the eyebrows in the context of fWHR.

Did you get that from lookism perchance?

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I will be making some simple headgear soon, and wearing it for as long as possible every day. I am confident it will change the structure of my face as well as widening the jaw.

Basically it will be a flat material covered in cloth in the shape of my hard palate. Attached to it by glue will be like 4-6 metal wires with hooks on the other end. These hooks will be attached to strong rubber bands, and these rubber bands will then be attached to a non-stretchy wool hat on the top of my head. because there is space between my teeth when the front teeth are aligned, the metal hooks have a space to go through,

The goal is upwards force, outwards force (to expand the palate), and slight forward force. But mostly upwards and outwards. The upwards force should move the maxilla forwards as well.

I don't think having correct tongue posture as an adult will cause the changes we desire. It will help but it won't be enough. At this point we need constant strong force.

I think even in a fully grown adult, regardless of age, facegear would expand the palate. The bones of the skull and face are unlike the long bones, the skull/face bones borders don't stop growing like the long bones do.

Supplements like aspirin and vitamin K might help, but I have no idea how big a difference they would make on their own.

I will post a picture when I make the facegear. It should be extremely cheap, no more then $40, probably far less.

Dr. Mike Mew's work is revolutionary. He puts 99% of dentists to shame. They are so hyperfocused on the smile and making sure the teeth are aligned and look pretty. They seem to have very little idea of the facial bones.

vitamin K will help. You want increased osteoblasts. Why not also take a hgh peptide while doing this? would speed up the bone growth.
Also don't think that just using a device will change your face. You need to develop strong hypertrophic jaw muscles. Not just the buccinator but the underjaw and neck area. it all attached the jaw and is important in giving a strong healthy robust appearance. That's part of the reason wrestlers and fighters tend to look so masculine and strong even after their careers are long over. They have well developed musculature in the neck and head, combined with strong attachments to the jaw and skull.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

@pimpnamedraypeat

There's been studies on the use of facegear showing good results:

http://www.facepulling.com/adult-maxillary-protraction-a-case-study/
http://www.facepulling.com/proof-moving-the-maxilla-is-possible-in-adults/

Dr. Mike Mew has made it very clear, the main driver of good facial architecture/maxilla placement has to do with upward and outwards force on the maxilla. This is why for him, tongue posture is the most important factor.

Regardless of age or health, I think facegear would have an effect in 99% of people who'd use it. For instance, people who have strokes which results in the loss of muscle function in the face, will suffer from bone deformation, so it seems bone malleability in the face is unaffected by age or maybe even health. I don't think tongue posture is sufficient for full grown adults or unhealthy people, but facegear definitely should work.

Though I'd agree that Vitamin K, neck/jaw muscle exercises, and HGH peptides would help the process, mostly I think the neck/jaw muscle exercises and Vitamin K. HGH I am unsure of, I don't know exactly what effect that would have.

(Sidenote on HGH releasing peptides, they should be used intransally. The HGH increasing peptides work by stimulating HGH in the pituitary, so injection would be less effective then intranasal use).

Good study on Vitamin K: Vitamin K and bone health. - PubMed - NCBI I am actually unsure of what effect Vitamin K would have. Bone density doesn't matter for facegear, all we need is for the bones to be malleable and remodel. That's why I am unsure of the effects that HGH would have either.

Neck/jaw muscle exercises though should help stabilize and guide the maxilla I think. When not using facegear, chewing gum constantly would help.

I am interested in the effects proper facial bone placement would have on gland function.

 

[RedStaR]

Did you get that from lookism perchance?

No, but I used to a regular poster there and contributed to the theory.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

No, but I used to a regular poster there and contributed to the theory.

Who were you there?

 

[RedStaR]

Who were you there?

If there's one thing I learned over there, it's that you should never reveal your identity. That place is the dark underground masquerade of the internet.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Though I'd agree that Vitamin K, neck/jaw muscle exercises, and HGH peptides would help the process, mostly I think the neck/jaw muscle exercises and Vitamin K. HGH I am unsure of, I don't know exactly what effect that would have.

(Sidenote on HGH releasing peptides, they should be used intransally. The HGH increasing peptides work by stimulating HGH in the pituitary, so injection would be less effective then intranasal use).

Good study on Vitamin K: Vitamin K and bone health. - PubMed - NCBI I am actually unsure of what effect Vitamin K would have. Bone density doesn't matter for facegear, all we need is for the bones to be malleable and remodel. That's why I am unsure of the effects that HGH would have either.

Neck/jaw muscle exercises though should help stabilize and guide the maxilla I think. When not using facegear, chewing gum constantly would help.

I am interested in the effects proper facial bone placement would have on gland function.

I think proper posture and bone placement helps one breath better and increases blood blow and lymph node function. It would rejuvenate the entire body and all its various symptoms.

I think the high would speed up the bone growth and increase the rate of change but I might be wrong on that one.

I also think that, as a male, you will want a developed jaw to go along with the well sculpted midface.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

If there's one thing I learned over there, it's that you should never reveal your identity. That place is the dark underground masquerade of the internet.

Smart move. There seems to be quite a diaspora of lookism posters over here

 

[BigYellowLemon]

I think proper posture and bone placement helps one breath better and increases blood blow and lymph node function. It would rejuvenate the entire body and all its various symptoms.

I think the high would speed up the bone growth and increase the rate of change but I might be wrong on that one.

I also think that, as a male, you will want a developed jaw to go along with the well sculpted midface.

Yes posture is probably very important too. I will be doing some posture exercises in conjunction with the facegear.

I actually a pretty wide lower jaw, teeth are perfectly straight, but they are slightly asymmetrical, due to me favoring one sides when chewing. Interestingly enough the bone structure of the lower jaw sides are slightly different, giving credence that face bones are malleable. My upper jaw, aka maxilla is the main issue though.

I also have had TMJ in the past btw, but don't anymore after doing some of Mew's suggestions, like teeth/tongue posture. Just wanted to mention that because it really seemed to help.

My bruxism is a major problem. Gonna need a good mouthguard for sleep. I'm honestly very surprised my teeth aren't completely ****88 from the amount of grinding they have taken.

 

[Thoushant]

Is this the other side of the spine?(badum tssshhh)

In neurosurgery they measure a certain distance from pelvis to femur "Pelvic Incidence". Supposedly this angle is constant in adulthood.



In this lecture he basicly says due to pelvic incidence, some people would need less muscle use to stand, while others need more muscle use to stand. Lordosis also have to be in a close range to the pelvic incidence, higher PI requires more lordosis.