EstroBan - Liquid Vitamin (K, A, D, E) Mix

[Vinero]

does this fatigue people or give people energy throughout the day ?

if estroban gave me fatigue, would eating it with food change that ?

Estroban is energizing in my experience.
If taken orally I usually eat it with a large meal containing up to 35 gram of fat. This is to maximize absorption of the fat-soluble vitamins especially vitamin K2.

 

[raypeatclips]

@haidut Do you think estroban (and the fat solubles in general) could improve anxiety in some way?

 

[Vinero]

@haidut Do you think estroban (and the fat solubles in general) could improve anxiety in some way?

Haidut has posted studies in the past that all fat-soluble vitamins are dopaminergic.
In my experience estroban increases energy and lowers anxiety.

Vitamin A is dopaminergic and reduces prolactin in humans
Vitamin D Is Dopaminergic And Decreases Obesity And Addiction Behaviors
Vitamin K (and Other Naphthoquines) Are Pro-dopamine And Anti-serotonin

I can't find the study about Vitamin E increasing dopamine, but Vitamin E is well-known to lower prolactin, and hence indirectly increase dopamine as well.

Low dopamine can cause anxiety in my experience, for example in the past I used large amounts of BCAAs to lower brain serotonin.
But BCAA lower absorption of both tryptophan and tyrosine so you will end up with low dopamine as well.
First few days feel good because of lower serotonin. But suddenly I felt anxious and could not focus on anything, It's like I didn't know what to do with myself. It's not the same as being tired. I felt scared and overstimulated. When I ate some whole protein like meat or cheese which contain tyrosine and phenylalanine (dopamine precursor amino acids) the feeling went away. Dopamine actually makes you feel relaxed.

 

[teds]

@haidut - are there any properties in estroban that are estrogenic? I've been taking it but someone mentioned that it's pro-estrogen and anti-estrogen.. TIA

 

[haidut]

@haidut - are there any properties in estroban that are estrogenic? I've been taking it but someone mentioned that it's pro-estrogen and anti-estrogen.. TIA

I don't know of anything in EstroBan that is pro-estrogen, quite the opposite actually. If somebody has any links/evidence please share.

 

[johnwester130]

Is through the gums the same as topical ?

 

[johnwester130]

@haidut - are there any properties in estroban that are estrogenic? I've been taking it but someone mentioned that it's pro-estrogen and anti-estrogen.. TIA

mainstream scientists believe estrogen is good for you, and low vitamin d causes low estrogen.
Vitamin D Deficiency and Low Estrogen: The Link - Paleo for Women

It depends on if you think estrogen is good for you.

 

[haidut]

Is through the gums the same as topical ?

Probably even higher absorption as the membrane is much thinner than regular skin.

 

[Owen B]

I've gone back to Estroban lately to try and get my energy up and balance the anti-androgenic effects of Progesterone. I like this stuff a lot. It definitely gets T up and I feel generally better.

But I'm trying to suss out the reports on the thread about neck, joint pain. People seem to think it's from estrogen getting too low. I've had some pain before with Estroban, esp. in my right hip. But I did not check my estrogen levels at that time.

But, as many people have noted, K2 has a strong effect on the jaw. It seems to realign the jaw and make it wider. Doesn't it stand to reason that it's also going to realign other parts of the bones, skeleton? Hips, neck, joints?

I've always done a lot stretching and trigger point work and when pain occurs it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's telling you where you need to work. So I'm going to work through the pain - I can already feel it in my lower back and hip - and see what happens.

I've always thought that the word "pain" is one of those words that describes everything and explains nothing. When a person feels "pain", what exactly is he feeling? It could be stiffness, soreness, tightness, tingling, etc. IOW, it's a typical medical model concept that doctors use to manipulate the system, justifying their use of the most expensive procedures. The insurance companies look like unwitting dupes of their own regulations which perfectly jibe with the over-focused thinking of the medical profession.

I'm not saying that people do not feel, in some situations, genuine pain. But when it comes to back pain, joint pain, there's usually a lot more going on beneath the surface.

Not that these pains, described here, couldn't be caused by something else. And I will be checking my estrogen levels too.

 

[Wagner83]

I've gone back to Estroban lately to try and get my energy up and balance the anti-androgenic effects of Progesterone. I like this stuff a lot. It definitely gets T up and I feel generally better.

But I'm trying to suss out the reports on the thread about neck, joint pain. People seem to think it's from estrogen getting too low. I've had some pain before with Estroban, esp. in my right hip. But I did not check my estrogen levels at that time.

Androsterone - Liquid Androsterone For Lab/R&D

 

[Arnold Grape]

I've gotten back to Estroban recently and take it at 2-3 drops daily - I realize that this is a lot less than other people dose it, but this stuff seems powerful to me. It seems synergistic with Pansterone, so I take it at the same time, to good effect.

 

[BrianF]

In

Probably even higher absorption as the membrane is much thinner than regular skin.

Interesting. I have been delivering in the shin since i read Danny Roddy claiming he done so, as it was thin skin. I worried that under the tongue wouldn't have same effect. Didn't consider the other side of the teeth, between gum and cheek.

 

[Vinero]

How much estroban can a person take safely without vitamin E and K interacting?
For example, is taking a double dose of estroban still safe to take? (16 drops, which gives 130 mg vitamin E, and 4 mg vitamin K)

 

[haidut]

How much estroban can a person take safely without vitamin E and K interacting?
For example, is taking a double dose of estroban still safe to take? (16 drops, which gives 130 mg vitamin E, and 4 mg vitamin K)

I think 2 doses are OK. Maybe up to 5mg K2 daily would be fine when combined with vitamin E.

 

[Amazoniac]

Les interactions entre les vitamines A, D, E et K: synergie et/ou compétition


LucH

 

[haidut]

Les interactions entre les vitamines A, D, E et K: synergie et/ou compétition


LucH

Thanks! Translation please

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks! Translation please

The abstract is in English.

He basically says that foods are associated with benefits while supplementing with isolated or combinations of vitamins has much more dubious effects. Vitamin E regeneration is dependent upon vitamin C intake but also upon lipoic acid and glutathion. There are synergies, antagonistic and additive between nutrients ( vitamin E and polyphenols, flavonols and their glycosides etc..), and it is impossible to study and identify all of those in foods. The effects apply to intestinal absorption, metabolism and mechanisms of action of vitamins. One vitamin can partly replace an other one that is deficient if needed, on the other hand supercharging some can result in deficiencies in others. As a result the action of one vitamin cannot be considered without its interactions with other nutrients. In this light he says it is more interesting and adequate to study how foods affect health rather than supplements as they are not a proper wholistic answer to issues.

He speaks in more details about the interactions themselves:
E.g.
B-carotene and vitamin E alone have no effects on one cancer in hamsters, but together they abolish tumours initiated with DMBA.
Too much vitamin A may or may not interferes with Vitamin E absorption and serum levels in humans. The metabolism of vit A and B-carotene are not comparable between humans and laboratory animals. In rats Vitamin E inluences the conversion of b-carotene in vit A while high doses of vit E greatly reduced how much vit A is formed and stored in the liver. High doses of vit C also have influence on the fate of b-carotene.
Both Vit C and E taken together have positive effects on hypertension and increase NO activity (tetrahydrobiopterine etc..Heller et al., 2006), Vit C may preserve vit E levels (study done on smokers).
In humans high doses of vit E (1000IU/day) is associated with more prothrombins, little or not carboxylated at all, it is suggested that vit E interferes with the conversion of K1 into K4.

 

[Wagner83]

The Nutritional Relationships of Vitamin A -- David Watts
@Wagner83

Thanks, it's nice to have access to easy-to-read and concise papers.

I used these FSV and did much better on them, but then crashed (after a peak). Do you know if it's a good sign they are needed but other nutrients were depleted along the way? In the past you told me you didn't like supplemental vitamin D at all and that "Fat-solubles have hormone-like action, which makes it very difficult to supplement them right. Gurus tend to supplement all of them in excess.", would a mix of these FS taken together be a different story?

 

[Amazoniac]

Thanks, it's nice to have access to easy-to-read and concise papers.

I used these FSV and did much better on them, but then crashed (after a peak). Do you know if it's a good sign they are needed but other nutrients were depleted along the way? In the past you told me you didn't like supplemental vitamin D at all and that "Fat-solubles have hormone-like action, which makes it very difficult to supplement them right. Gurus tend to supplement all of them in excess.", would a mix of these FS taken together be a different story?

It was probably the case (depletion).

I don't like it because it's very difficult to dose it right, make sure it's balanced with other nutrients and avoid detrimental effects. I don't have much experience with it but the times I tried the effects weren't nice. I'm sure it's not a good option if the person has problems retaining magnesium, has a weak metabolism and consumes a lot of dairy.
At the same time I suggested Zeus to release a single vit D supplement because I knew it would be of good quality and would allow people to adjust according to the individual of the needs.
Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3

Regarding the vitamins working together, I'm always surprised and interested whenever someone mentions their combined use in high amounts without complaints. Mufasa's experience for example.

 

[Braveheart]

I've tried fat soluble vitamins without the d3 for a few days, tocovit, kuinone and retinil, for now the effects feel less powerful than estroban. Have people noticed different effects from supplementing fat soluble vitamins with similar doses to estroban? What about A, E, K2 without d3? I'm also considering the possibility that oral tocovit triggers sinusitis in my case but not sure yet.

Did you ever track down the sinusitis?