Does Lowering Estrogen Actually Help Male Sexual Function?

[farside44]

After lurking through hundreds of blogs and forums, I have never seen anyone say that aromatase inhibitors or SERMs resolved their erectile dysfunction. Just tons and tons of posts of people complaining about joint pain, headaches and lowered libido. Many posts were neutral. All of the studies I've read are mixed with regards to whether high estrogen has a negative effect on male sexual function (they all affirm that a base level of estrogen is required however). To further confuse the matter, there are tons of anecdotes from transvestites saying that they induced erectile dysfunction with nothing but estradiol pills.


Is the idea, as perpetuated on blogs and forums, that, in otherwise healthy men, high estrogen induces erectile dysfunction false? Do you believe I would benefit from any efforts to lower estrogen, whether by pharmaceutical AIs or some other means?


>23 years old, puberty at 15

>Erectile dysfunction hasn't changed at all in this time

>No morning wood, weak erections, takes too long to cum

>6'1", 170 lbs, male, puffy nipples, little body hair/facial hair

>Estrogen total serum: 160 [normal: 30-190 pg/ml]

>Estradiol: 35 [normal: <39 pg/ml]

>DHT: 23 [normal: 16-79 ng/ml]

>Testosterone, ferritin, HGH, calcium, magnesium, etc. are all mid-range


I'm really reaching the end of my wits. Thank you.

 

[ecstatichamster]

For young people frequently it’s ED from porn use. I’m just saying that’s the usual suspect. Estrogen per se on a chronic basis isn’t a cause of ED but it can be in acute situations.

 

[cellboy]

Maybe you‘re low in vitamin d or you‘re not getting enough sun. Without vitamin d many hormonal functions are compromised.
Estrogen overstimulates your adrenals and as a consequence you get a surge of androgens which give you that insatiable sex drive. Estrogen by itself does not increase libido.

 

[theLaw]

High Estrogen (not Low T) Causes Erectile Dysfunction (ED)

Keep in mind that you are trying to view ED as a problem and not a symptom. Take a step back, begin to improve your health with the basic suggestions on this forum, and you'll see changes in your "symptoms".

If you just keep chasing the symptom, you'll just find two more for each that you resolve.

 

[Soundios]

Have you had prolactin measured?

 

[Jackrabbit]

Using bio identical hormones such as pregnenolone and progesterone are going to naturally oppose estrogen, I don’t think I’ve ever once heard ray peat recommending Aromatase inhibiting pharmaceuticals. Also, getting your thyroid in a good range for you (not based on what doctors say is “Normal”) is going to do more to regulate your hormones correctly than manipulating your hormones with pharmaceutical drugs. That usually means taking at least some t3 or a natural desiccated thyroid supplement.

 

[Hans]

DHT is too low. Haidut has posted a lot on this that DHT is the most important hormones for male sexual function.

 

[fradon]

After lurking through hundreds of blogs and forums, I have never seen anyone say that aromatase inhibitors or SERMs resolved their erectile dysfunction. Just tons and tons of posts of people complaining about joint pain, headaches and lowered libido. Many posts were neutral. All of the studies I've read are mixed with regards to whether high estrogen has a negative effect on male sexual function (they all affirm that a base level of estrogen is required however). To further confuse the matter, there are tons of anecdotes from transvestites saying that they induced erectile dysfunction with nothing but estradiol pills.


Is the idea, as perpetuated on blogs and forums, that, in otherwise healthy men, high estrogen induces erectile dysfunction false? Do you believe I would benefit from any efforts to lower estrogen, whether by pharmaceutical AIs or some other means?


>23 years old, puberty at 15

>Erectile dysfunction hasn't changed at all in this time

>No morning wood, weak erections, takes too long to cum

>6'1", 170 lbs, male, puffy nipples, little body hair/facial hair

>Estrogen total serum: 160 [normal: 30-190 pg/ml]

>Estradiol: 35 [normal: <39 pg/ml]

>DHT: 23 [normal: 16-79 ng/ml]

>Testosterone, ferritin, HGH, calcium, magnesium, etc. are all mid-range


I'm really reaching the end of my wits. Thank you.

you may be low in copper. when i was taking chlorophyll in liquid form which super high in copper i would have massive erections bordering on priapism.

now copper can raise estrogen but copper also can increase dopamine and methylation. dopamine shuts off prolactin. high prolactin causes erectile dysfunction. dopamin is the key here. copper is necessary for dopamine

i've been taking copper for a few weeks and i've noticed dopamien levels rise. when i listen to music i feel engulfed by it with an incredible high. too much zinc supplements lowers copper and makes one more stoic and less emotional maybe even frontal lobe dominant.. this is bad since dopamine works in the emotional part of the brain, the reward/pleasure.

so to some degree estrogen helps boosts emotionsl which helps boost dopamine response and sexual arousal. i think too many people are supplmenting zinc an zinc chelates copper causes a copper deficiency. even though these same peopel can have a lot of unbound copper in the tissue can can be considered copper toxic. but the copper the counts is the one bound to ceruloplasm.

ALSO: high dopamine can lead to psychosis and schizophrenia in some people. these peopel have also been shown to have high copper. high copper increases methylation. methylation makes dopamine. schizophrenics are said to be overmethylatores.

 

[farside44]

I had prolactin measured about a year ago and it was upper normal range (17 ng/ml [normal: 3-18]). My TSH was above range 7 UIU/ml [normal: .3-4.5]. T3 and T4 were just below average. I got another test a month later that confirmed these results. I went on levothyroxine 75 mcg for 10 weeks and got remeasured. Prolactin was at 10, TSH at 1.9, T3 and T4 center normal. At this point I felt about the same and perhaps a little worse than before I started the levothyroxine. I bumped my levothyroxine up to 112 mcg by splitting tablets for a few weeks but this made me feel worse.

One thing I found that was very interesting was that about a week after I started taking it I got morning wood maybe 5 or 6 times over the course of a week and I found my self getting spontaneous half chubs throughout the day. I also felt a higher sex drive, but thats hard to quantify. After this week long period these feelings faded and I felt like baseline. I thought that perhaps I had zoomed past my optimal thyroid levels due to too high of a levothyroxine dose. Months after I stopped my original round of treatment as mentioned above, I tried taking split pills (37.5 mcg) everyday for six weeks. I experienced no changes.

At this point I’m convinced that my sub-optimal thyroid values (and prolactin) are not the cause of my sexual problems. They could be entirely incidental. Or whatever is causing the sexual problems could be negatively affecting my thyroid. I believe high estrogen is a possible culprit, as it makes the thyroid less efficient and supposedly can induce sex problems in men.

 

[farside44]

you may be low in copper. when i was taking chlorophyll in liquid form which super high in copper i would have massive erections bordering on priapism.

now copper can raise estrogen but copper also can increase dopamine and methylation. dopamine shuts off prolactin. high prolactin causes erectile dysfunction. dopamin is the key here. copper is necessary for dopamine

i've been taking copper for a few weeks and i've noticed dopamien levels rise. when i listen to music i feel engulfed by it with an incredible high. too much zinc supplements lowers copper and makes one more stoic and less emotional maybe even frontal lobe dominant.. this is bad since dopamine works in the emotional part of the brain, the reward/pleasure.

so to some degree estrogen helps boosts emotionsl which helps boost dopamine response and sexual arousal. i think too many people are supplmenting zinc an zinc chelates copper causes a copper deficiency. even though these same peopel can have a lot of unbound copper in the tissue can can be considered copper toxic. but the copper the counts is the one bound to ceruloplasm.

ALSO: high dopamine can lead to psychosis and schizophrenia in some people. these peopel have also been shown to have high copper. high copper increases methylation. methylation makes dopamine. schizophrenics are said to be overmethylatores.

I actually had my copper and zinc values measured a month or so ago. At that point in time I was not and had not been taking any supplements or medicine (levothyroxine) for awhile.

Copper: 74 mcg/dl [normal: 70-175]
Zinc: 78 mcg/dl [normal: 60-130]
Ceruloplasmin: 22 ng/dl [normal: 18-36]

I didnt think much of the copper because, from everything Ive read, I believed it would exasterbate the (what I believe to be) high estrogen induced sexual problems Im experiencing. Ive tried zinc gluconate supplements in the past at varying doses and didn’t experience much of anything, perhaps a slight downtick in sexual function.

I’ll try a copper supplement for a few weeks (just to isolate what effects it has). Then I’ll try loading up on oysters since I’m clearly on the lower end for both zinc and copper.

Taking into account my thyroid and prolactin info in my previous post, what are your thoughts?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Are you having steady partner intercourse @farside44

 

[damngoodcoffee]

For young people frequently it’s ED from porn use. I’m just saying that’s the usual suspect. Estrogen per se on a chronic basis isn’t a cause of ED but it can be in acute situations.

I have had ED/libido issues since I was about 17 years old. I'm now 26. For the last 2-3 years I've been free of them. My relationship with porn has had nothing to do with it. I still watch porn weekly. Slowly building my health up with the nutrition stuff being my main focus, I've healed my sexual functioning. I don't have a compulsive need to get laid, watch porn or to masturbate, but I have the freedom to enjoy all of those things.
Mentally and emotionally, getting rid off shame and fear has gone hand in hand with my sexual functionality.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have had ED/libido issues since I was about 17 years old. I'm now 26. For the last 2-3 years I've been free of them. My relationship with porn has had nothing to do with it. I still watch porn weekly. Slowly building my health up with the nutrition stuff being my main focus, I've healed my sexual functioning. I don't have a compulsive need to get laid, watch porn or to masturbate, but I have the freedom to enjoy all of those things.
Mentally and emotionally, getting rid off shame and fear has gone hand in hand with my sexual functionality.

Got it.

I have found porn use is a basic cause of ED and sexual issues. And intercourse can be super healing.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Got it.

I have found porn use is a basic cause of ED and sexual issues. And intercourse can be super healing.

Yeah no doubt that real intimate loving relationships are the bees knees, and without that kinda thing in a person's life, porn can make things worse. Actually I healed from ED during a relationship, and definitely agree that sex with someone you love is the best.

I just don't think that porn per se is bad. Being too restrictive with that can become just one of the things that we burden and blame ourselves with, and ultimately it adds to the problem.

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah no doubt that real intimate loving relationships are the bees knees, and without that kinda thing in a person's life, porn can make things worse. Actually I healed from ED during a relationship, and definitely agree that sex with someone you love is the best.

I just don't think that porn per se is bad. Being too restrictive with that can become just one of the things that we burden and blame ourselves with, and ultimately it adds to the problem.

I agree, and I have not indulged in Porn or masturbated since June of 2018. I have certainly self stimulated with a female next to me, using only her and the heat of the moment as the erotic thought to get off. The brain and body knows the difference. Porn can desensitize one to real life situations where you should become aroused, and it can cause problems if you are with a partner when it comes down to deliver.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I just don't think that porn per se is bad. Being too restrictive with that can become just one of the things that we burden and blame ourselves with, and ultimately it adds to the problem.

Well, porn has also changed dramatically. 20 years ago or more, a person had to seek it out, in magazines, dvds, video, pay per view or what have you. With the advent of high speed internet, it started to become virtually unlimited, and on demand at all times, with little to no additional cost. It's around this time when a lot of people started to notice problems.

If you look at some of the NoFap forums, it's almost not even a mystery. You see some guys claiming to go at it 10 times or more a day. They do NoFap, and it seems like every aspect of their life changes. And in those extreme cases, it would no doubt be a dramatic change. As for others, the benefits might be more subtle or a mixed bag.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

You see some guys claiming to go at it 10 times or more a day.

Yeah that's crazy. The extreme no doubt need some extreme change.

 

[farside44]

I’m fairly certain my sex problems are independent of masturbation and pornography. I didn’t watch porn till about a year after I began masturbating and I felt the same then (no morning wood, takes to long to cum, etc.) as I do now (and have felt in the years between. Additionally I have done a few bouts of noFap ranging from a week or so up to two months. Some of these were unintentional and just due to me being too busy with school. The two month long noFap was intentional. It wasn’t difficult and I felt my sexdrive lower if anything.
My urologist couldn’t find any blood flow or mechanical issues. At this point I firmly believe the problem is endocronological.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yeah no doubt that real intimate loving relationships are the bees knees, and without that kinda thing in a person's life, porn can make things worse. Actually I healed from ED during a relationship, and definitely agree that sex with someone you love is the best.

I just don't think that porn per se is bad. Being too restrictive with that can become just one of the things that we burden and blame ourselves with, and ultimately it adds to the problem.

I'm older. In my young days, I found porn at a very early age and it caused me a lot of ED and problems. I have observed the same pattern with men who get into porn early. Now that's the norm, with internet access, and it's caused a wave of terrible ED with young men.

I do think it's very harmful to sexuality. Nothing immoral about it and I'm not against it, just saying that porn harms men's sexual function and creates a host of issues especially for young men who grew up with porn. It has hurt women just as badly as men, and young people under, say 35 or so, growing up with porn at an early age have been very hard hit with sexual problems.

What you described in the OP is classic from porn use.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I’m fairly certain my sex problems are independent of masturbation and pornography. I didn’t watch porn till about a year after I began masturbating and I felt the same then (no morning wood, takes to long to cum, etc.) as I do now (and have felt in the years between. Additionally I have done a few bouts of noFap ranging from a week or so up to two months. Some of these were unintentional and just due to me being too busy with school. The two month long noFap was intentional. It wasn’t difficult and I felt my sexdrive lower if anything.
My urologist couldn’t find any blood flow or mechanical issues. At this point I firmly believe the problem is endocronological.

I'll mention this..... I never really got morning wood when I was a teen or in my 20s. Although I never really suffered from ED during that time, either. However, when I started supplementing Magnesium and K2 (in my mid 30s), morning wood became a regular phenomenon (I had already regularly been supplementing Vitamin D). From seemingly never, to like 5-7 days a week. It seemed only not to happen if I drank excessively or didn't get great sleep. This has continued, even as I got older. Still happens regularly. If you look through Andrew Fletcher's work with inclined bed therapy, many men have also reported improvements in this department and libido, and a big thing that IBT helps out is circulation during the night. So even if you don't have blood flow issues, improving blood flow and circulation could have a profound effect.