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Someone to try out with a glucose monitor if fatty acid inhibition properties equals to those of mildronate? Moving from theory to real life arena.

Mildronate inhibition will result in some blood glucose drop during normal activity. It would be easily to know how much more potent this product and methyl.palmitate performs.
 
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haidut

haidut

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I've had a few interesting experiences with this, and wanted to see if anyone else had the same?

First, I took the full 40 drops around 7pm the first night. Within a couple hours, I also had the very sensitive teeth thing, but that was gone by morning. I also noticed a change in vision, like wider or something. It felt a little weird at first, but now I feel adjusted. My temps went up within 30 minutes. However, I felt very irritated and mad for a couple hours for no apparent reason, but that subsided and then I felt great (normal :) ).

The oddest thing, though, is that within an hour of taking it, I got this weird pain in my right forearm in a very specific spot, and I was all of the sudden not able to hold anything heavy with my right hand, like the muscle couldn't be engaged. This lasted for about 90min. What's so weird is that I had badly pulled a muscle in that arm doing cross-fit about 3 years ago, and the pain from that injury was in the same spot. And the main reason I remembered it, was when I had that injury, I could barely hold a fork with that arm and the feeling was like the muscle could not engage and it lasted for a long time; basically the feeling was exactly the same. Anyways, that subsided and no more problem.

But there's more. The next morning I woke up and figured I'd slow it down, taking only 5 drops. Everything's fine, feel great, nose feels very open, temp is high. Then around noontime the joints where the finger meets the hand of my middle 3 fingers on my left hand started to ache. And ache. And ache some more. Not like a horrible painful ache, but almost like they'd been stretched too much and were a little sore. Funny thing is, I used to play goalie in soccer, and about 6 years ago I had charged out on an attacker with the ball, and basically blocked a really strong shot on goal with the tip of my left hand only a foot or so from the kicker's foot. It was so powerful my fingers bent back much farther than they should have (an only the middle 3 since they were long enough to get a piece of the ball). I was in so much pain in my left hand, I had to sit out the rest of the game, and the last 2 games of the season. It took quite a while for those fingers to feel normal again. The ache seems to be in the exact same place. The ache is still present as of now, but is subsiding.

So I wonder? Is this some crazy coincidence, or is DeFribron really removing fibrosis? And the reason I'm feeling the weird aches an pains in those spots is because there's probably scar tissue there? And maybe I'm experiencing the reverse? I have no idea?! If a 3rd war wound resurfaces, I'm going to feel less like this is a coincidence, but I'm also curious if anyone else had a similar experience?

Wow, that's great feedback, thanks! All I can say is that the evidence behind MP and its effects on fibrosis is pretty solid. Opposition to endotoxin can also bring about weird effects sometimes. Have you had tests for chronic inflammation like ESR, CRP, etc? I would do those before/after is possible to see if there is any change.
 
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haidut

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Vision is still widening, wow, its crazy wide at the moment. Never knew the sky was that wide!

Lol, thanks. I always have this reaction whenever I experience a dopaminergic rush. Like, wow, things CAN look much more grand and engaging when health is good.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Someone to try out with a glucose monitor if fatty acid inhibition properties equals to those of mildronate? Moving from theory to real life arena.

Mildronate inhibition will result in some blood glucose drop during normal activity. It would be easily to know how much more potent this product and methyl.palmitate performs.

I second that. There was an article about blood-less glucose measuring devices coming soon, similar to the pulse oxymeter. Apparently, they are even available in some countries but not in the US. I can see them easily crushing all other device makes from the same industry, so there is probably heavy lobbying not to have them sold in US for as long as possible. Maybe China will start selling cheap counterfeits soon and we can get one online...
Anyways, I digress. If somebody does glucose testing before/after please post results.
 

Wagner83

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Any viagra and low blood pressure effects from the supposed effects of the ingredients (potent vasodilator) ?
 

Wagner83

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Assessment of the contact toxicity of methyl palmitate on Tetranychus viennensis (Acari: Tetranychidae).
Wang YN1, Wang HX, Jin YS, Bu CY, Cheng J, Zhao LL, Shi GL.
Author information
Abstract

Previous work demonstrated that methyl palmitate possesses acaricidal activity against Tetranychus viennensis Boisduval (Acari: Tetranychidae) via an unknown mechanism. Here, the symptoms of methyl palmitate toxicity to T. viennensi were studied to determine the acaricidal mechanism of action of this fatty acid methyl ester. Methyl palmitate caused concentration-dependent mortality of T. viennensis, with a moderate concentration (5 mg/ml) eliciting excitement and premature oviposition without spinning shortly after exposure. Tremors of the appendages were subsequently observed, followed by quiescence after approximately 5 h. Mites developed dorsal fluid exosmosis at 15-20 h posttreatment with reduced egg production, followed shortly thereafter by death. Some typical neurotoxic symptoms such as excitement and convulsions were observed in methyl palmitate-exposed mites, suggesting that methyl palmitate may be a neurotoxin. Compared with other neurotoxic acaricides, methyl palmitate poisoning is a slow process in mites. Transmission electron microscopy revealed serious ultrastructural damage in response to 5 mg/ml methyl palmitate exposure. Autolysis of membranous structures was also observed, especially in the mitochondria, suggesting a novel mode of action for methyl palmitate-induced toxicity.



The effect of methyl palmitate on treatment of experimental asthma.
Temiz C1, Kalemci S2, Micili SC3, Tekmen I3, Yildiz G4, Acar T5, Ayik S6, Aksun S7, Yilmaz O8, Akkoclu A1.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To determine the effects of methyl palmitate on murine model of chronic asthma.

METHODS:
The experimental study was conducted in the animal laboratory of DokuzEylul University, Turkey, from October to December, 2012, and comprised BALB/c mice whowere divided into four equal groups: three experimental and one control group. All groups except the control group were sensitised and challenged with ovalbumin. Mice with experimentally-induced asthma in Group I received saline; Group II dexamethasone 1mg/kg; Group III methyl palmitate300mg/kg intraperitoneally three times per week in the last four weeks of the study period. Animals were sacrificed 24h after the last administration of study drugs. Histological findings of airways were evaluated by light microscopic examination. Blood samples from vena cava inferior were taken for measurement of interleukin-5 levels. SPSS 15 was used for statistical analysis.

RESULTS:
The 28 female mice in the study were divided into 4 groups of 7(25%) each. The age range of the animals was 6-8weeks, and the weight range was 18-20g. All histological parameters and interleukin-5 levels of asthma in the Group III were significantly ameliorated compared to the Group I (p<0.05). All histological parameters and interleukin-5 levels were similar between Group III and Group II.

CONCLUSIONS:
Methyl palmitate exhibited anti-inflammatory effects by resolving the histological changes and reducing the interleukin-5 levels in murine model of chronic asthma.

 
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haidut

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Assessment of the contact toxicity of methyl palmitate on Tetranychus viennensis (Acari: Tetranychidae).
Wang YN1, Wang HX, Jin YS, Bu CY, Cheng J, Zhao LL, Shi GL.
Author information
Abstract

Previous work demonstrated that methyl palmitate possesses acaricidal activity against Tetranychus viennensis Boisduval (Acari: Tetranychidae) via an unknown mechanism. Here, the symptoms of methyl palmitate toxicity to T. viennensi were studied to determine the acaricidal mechanism of action of this fatty acid methyl ester. Methyl palmitate caused concentration-dependent mortality of T. viennensis, with a moderate concentration (5 mg/ml) eliciting excitement and premature oviposition without spinning shortly after exposure. Tremors of the appendages were subsequently observed, followed by quiescence after approximately 5 h. Mites developed dorsal fluid exosmosis at 15-20 h posttreatment with reduced egg production, followed shortly thereafter by death. Some typical neurotoxic symptoms such as excitement and convulsions were observed in methyl palmitate-exposed mites, suggesting that methyl palmitate may be a neurotoxin. Compared with other neurotoxic acaricides, methyl palmitate poisoning is a slow process in mites. Transmission electron microscopy revealed serious ultrastructural damage in response to 5 mg/ml methyl palmitate exposure. Autolysis of membranous structures was also observed, especially in the mitochondria, suggesting a novel mode of action for methyl palmitate-induced toxicity.



The effect of methyl palmitate on treatment of experimental asthma.
Temiz C1, Kalemci S2, Micili SC3, Tekmen I3, Yildiz G4, Acar T5, Ayik S6, Aksun S7, Yilmaz O8, Akkoclu A1.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To determine the effects of methyl palmitate on murine model of chronic asthma.

METHODS:
The experimental study was conducted in the animal laboratory of DokuzEylul University, Turkey, from October to December, 2012, and comprised BALB/c mice whowere divided into four equal groups: three experimental and one control group. All groups except the control group were sensitised and challenged with ovalbumin. Mice with experimentally-induced asthma in Group I received saline; Group II dexamethasone 1mg/kg; Group III methyl palmitate300mg/kg intraperitoneally three times per week in the last four weeks of the study period. Animals were sacrificed 24h after the last administration of study drugs. Histological findings of airways were evaluated by light microscopic examination. Blood samples from vena cava inferior were taken for measurement of interleukin-5 levels. SPSS 15 was used for statistical analysis.

RESULTS:
The 28 female mice in the study were divided into 4 groups of 7(25%) each. The age range of the animals was 6-8weeks, and the weight range was 18-20g. All histological parameters and interleukin-5 levels of asthma in the Group III were significantly ameliorated compared to the Group I (p<0.05). All histological parameters and interleukin-5 levels were similar between Group III and Group II.

CONCLUSIONS:
Methyl palmitate exhibited anti-inflammatory effects by resolving the histological changes and reducing the interleukin-5 levels in murine model of chronic asthma.

Thanks. As far as the toxicity, the study was on mites. The full text explcitly says that methyl palmitate is non-toxic to mammals and is used in good and cosmetics. It seems that the "toxicity" was due to methyl palmitate being an uncoupler of respiration and increasing metabolism. It also seems that MP is a cholinergic/muscarinic antagonist, which is also not a bad property and one it shares with drugs like cyproheptadine. On top of that, anticholinergic chemicals are good for reversing learned helplessness as Peat wrote in his latest article on the website, as well as Alzheimer and even Parkinson. Finally, the anticholinergic/antimuscarinic effects may explain the benefit for asthma as the second study you posted shows.
"...Many methyl esters in the range of C8 ÐC18 are nontoxic to rats. Fatty acid methyl esters, such as methyl palmitate, methyl linoleate, methyl stearate, and methyl oleate, are used indirectly in a wide range of foods, pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, and industrial applications. Recently, methyl palmitate was reported to be an inhibitor of Kupffer cells (Villa et al. 1996). Fatty acids and their esters were suggested to be semiochemicals indicative of juvenile tissues in insects (Thie´ry et al. 1995, Gabel and Thie´ry 1996). Furthermore, methyl palmitate was reported to have repellent activities against three ant species (Posy et al. 1984). An important parasitic threat to honey bees (Apis mellifera L.), the mite Varroa jacobsoni Oudemans is attracted toitsmajor prey, dronelarvae, bymethyl and ethyl esters of straight-chain fatty acids, and in particular to methyl palmitate (Le Conte et al. 1989). However, to the best of our knowledge, the toxicity of methyl palmitate to mites has not been examined."

"...The recurrence of the creases or sharp ridges at more or less regular intervals was clearly observed on the membranes of the mitochondria crista in the control group (Fig. 5). In response to methyl palmitate, the mitochondria swelled, the sharp ridges along the proÞle of the crista became irregular, and the crista was partially disintegrated."

"...Usha and Nazarine (2002) reported that methyl palmitate had antagonistic activity on muscarinic receptors by selective binding to M1 and M3. Muscarinic receptors, speciÞcally M1, M2, and M3, were identiÞed in Tetranychus cinnabarinus Boisduval by immunoblotting (G.L.S., unpublished data). Therefore, methyl palmitate may have antagonistic activity on the muscarinic receptors in mites by selectively binding to M1, M2, and M3. In mammals, M3 muscarinic receptors are located in the smooth muscles of the blood vessels and in the lungs."
 

DrJ

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Wow, that's great feedback, thanks! All I can say is that the evidence behind MP and its effects on fibrosis is pretty solid. Opposition to endotoxin can also bring about weird effects sometimes. Have you had tests for chronic inflammation like ESR, CRP, etc? I would do those before/after is possible to see if there is any change.
I did not know about those tests, so thanks! I have been looking into having some blood tests done for prolactin, so will see if those can't be added to the mix.
 

belcanto

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Wow, Haidut, your delivery time is lightning-fast! I got it about two days after I ordered it, and I'm in SoCal - was expecting it on a Monday but got it on Friday and took it along on vacation!

My rat uses 20 drops a day; she hasn't had any fang sensitivity or abdominal upset or huge expanded vision, but her morning temps are up without the application Tyromix or Tyrene during the previous day! (I am testing the Panquinone on her at the same time as well, plus many other IdeaLabs products for experimentation.)

(My rat's mate is very pleased that Progestene and Pansterone are being applied to her - good times!)

THANKS!
 
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Wow, Haidut, your delivery time is lightning-fast! I got it about two days after I ordered it, and I'm in SoCal - was expecting it on a Monday but got it on Friday and took it along on vacation!

My rat uses 20 drops a day; she hasn't had any fang sensitivity or abdominal upset or huge expanded vision, but her morning temps are up without the application Tyromix or Tyrene during the previous day! (I am testing the Panquinone on her at the same time as well, plus many other IdeaLabs products for experimentation.)

(My rat's mate is very pleased that Progestene and Pansterone are being applied to her - good times!)

THANKS!

Glad to hear that! We do everything we can to ship on the same day and usually this ensures delivery to any point in the US within 1-2 days. So, better then Amazon Prime and cheaper as well. When it works at least, as USPS does mess things up sometimes.
Excellent feedback on DeFibron. I would try topically as well, especially on problematic areas that have scars, chronic pain, etc.
 

jaa

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Glad to hear that! We do everything we can to ship on the same day and usually this ensures delivery to any point in the US within 1-2 days. So, better then Amazon Prime and cheaper as well. When it works at least, as USPS does mess things up sometimes.
Excellent feedback on DeFibron. I would try topically as well, especially on problematic areas that have scars, chronic pain, etc.

Delivery to Canada has always been very speedy for me as well.

I'm looking forward to trying this product for scar tissue. Do you think it would help loosen tight muscles as well? As an aside, I've found topical vitamin k2 to be effective at that.

For delivery to the liver, do you think it is best to try orally?
 

Epistrophy

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I second that. There was an article about blood-less glucose measuring devices coming soon, similar to the pulse oxymeter. Apparently, they are even available in some countries but not in the US. I can see them easily crushing all other device makes from the same industry, so there is probably heavy lobbying not to have them sold in US for as long as possible. Maybe China will start selling cheap counterfeits soon and we can get one online...
Anyways, I digress. If somebody does glucose testing before/after please post results.

GlucoWise™ : Meet the new non-invasive glucose monitor that helps you take control of your life

wonder if it works well?
 

Scenes

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Glad to hear that! We do everything we can to ship on the same day and usually this ensures delivery to any point in the US within 1-2 days. So, better then Amazon Prime and cheaper as well. When it works at least, as USPS does mess things up sometimes.
Excellent feedback on DeFibron. I would try topically as well, especially on problematic areas that have scars, chronic pain, etc.

Do you think DeFibron should be helpful applied to the scalp?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Delivery to Canada has always been very speedy for me as well.

I'm looking forward to trying this product for scar tissue. Do you think it would help loosen tight muscles as well? As an aside, I've found topical vitamin k2 to be effective at that.

For delivery to the liver, do you think it is best to try orally?

I think any issue related to inflammation would be something I would personally try it on. Oral use would likely be most warranted for fibrotic conditions of the liver, which is what most of the studies on methyl palmitate in the original thread are on. I have started using a dose of DeFibron any time I go out and have a few drinks, or have to eat crappy food loaded with PUFA.
 
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They are VERY accurate, possibly even more so than the ones using blood as taking the blood out always changes it a bit and makes the glucose subject to oxidation. These devices measure directly the glucose in your blood, same as the oxymeter with oxygen. I think we will soon see devices that measure tissue oxygenation as the principle is the same. In fact, I think I saw some being sold on Alibaba last year but given that no publications for them exist in the US and they were expensive I did not want to buy one and try it. But this technology is coming, pricking yourself to check something as simple as glucose is passe.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Do you think DeFibron should be helpful applied to the scalp?

It could, if there was fibrotic issue there. I have not seen any studies for that yet, but won;t hurt trying it.
 

Scenes

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Started DeFibron few days ago.

- skin and hair seems to look a little nicer
- bowels definitely moving differently, better, 3 times a day
- hip flexor on left leg sore (feels strained), had an injury there before about a year ago, healing perhaps? No idea...wouldn't have paired it with DeFibron if I hadn't read through this thread and similar experiences.

Interesting...
 

managing

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I am going to reverse what I said about taking on an empty stomach a few pages back. I've a/b it and it definitely seems to adsorb better and have better intestinal activity with food. I was worried it would react with amino acids and fats in the food. But it doesn't seem to. Given what @haidut has said about its stability, my experience seems to support it.

So I've been taking 5 drops 2xday. Very good energy, attention, ability to go 5-6 hrs w/o food. And adrenaline/cortisol suppression it seems as I can get cold at appropriate times and don't overheat otherwise, even taking niacinamide . . .
 

mogwog

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So far, the obvious side-effect I noticed from this product is lots and lots of pimples.
 

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