Confused About Pregnenolone And Cortisol

readforjoy

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Jul 5, 2013
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I'm confused about whether pregnenolone raises or lowers cortisol, and whether I have high or low cortisol.

I've been very fatigued for the past 1 1/2 years. Have tried HC, NDT, and T3, but those didn't help. NDT and T3 make me more tired.

My latest cortisol test results are:

morning 4.1 (range 3.7-9.5)
noon .9 (range 1.2-3.0)
evening 1 (range .6-1.9)
night 1.1 (range .4-1.0)

Latest thyroid test:
TSH 5.72 (range .450-4.50), Free T3 3.3 (range 2.0-4.4), Free T4 1.06 (range .82-1.77)

A month ago I started on pregnenolone. Immediately I noticed improvements in my mood and mental clarity. But I was still tired. I read that pregnenolone and T3 work together synergistically so I added T3. Small amounts of both T3 and preg taken together throughout the day are helping my fatigue. The info I read said that T3 uses up cortisol and that preg helps make cortisol. Other sites have said that preg decreases excess cortisol.

Can anyone shed any light for me on what is going on with my cortisol? Any recommendations?

Thanks!
 

jaguar43

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readforjoy said:
I'm confused about whether pregnenolone raises or lowers cortisol, and whether I have high or low cortisol.

I've been very fatigued for the past 1 1/2 years. Have tried HC, NDT, and T3, but those didn't help. NDT and T3 make me more tired.

My latest cortisol test results are:

morning 4.1 (range 3.7-9.5)
noon .9 (range 1.2-3.0)
evening 1 (range .6-1.9)
night 1.1 (range .4-1.0)

Latest thyroid test:
TSH 5.72 (range .450-4.50), Free T3 3.3 (range 2.0-4.4), Free T4 1.06 (range .82-1.77)

A month ago I started on pregnenolone. Immediately I noticed improvements in my mood and mental clarity. But I was still tired. I read that pregnenolone and T3 work together synergistically so I added T3. Small amounts of both T3 and preg taken together throughout the day are helping my fatigue. The info I read said that T3 uses up cortisol and that preg helps make cortisol. Other sites have said that preg decreases excess cortisol.

Can anyone shed any light for me on what is going on with my cortisol? Any recommendations?

Thanks!

what is your diet like ?
 
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readforjoy

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Was very low-carb/Paleo for 8 years. My adrenals & thyroid crashed 1 1/2 yrs ago leaving me very fatigued and brain fogged. 3 months ago I stumbled across Matt Stone's work and ditched low-carb forever. Just a couple weeks ago I started looking into Ray Peat.

Right now, I'm eating eggs, cheese, milk, Hagan Daz, grape juice, fruit, gelatin, beef, shrimp, potatoes, rice, corn tortillas, Mexican coke or Blue Sky. It's not perfect...I occasionally eat pizza and french fries.
 

madhattie

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Jul 27, 2013
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To understand cortisol and pregnenolone try reading the book:
"Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome", by James L. Wilson. 384 pages and in-depth explanations of cortisol activity, etc. Full of recommendations on testing, diet, stress control, and supplementation (including pregnenolone).

You can download a pdf copy at:
en.bookfi.org/book/1168875

[mod="Charlie"]I am not sure if the above is a direct advertisement so I have taken off the hard link. You can cut and paste it if you like but I am also not sure if the link is safe. So be forewarned. Also be aware that Ray Peat does not buy into the "adrenal fatigue" doctrine.[/mod]
 

tomisonbottom

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Apr 17, 2013
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Hi Readforjoy,

Did you ever get any clarity on what the pregnenolone was doing for you?
 
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readforjoy

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Not for sure. I did read somewhere that Peat said pregnenolone helps raise cortisol.

I'm much better than I was since taking pregnenolone & T3, but I still have a ways to go.
 

HDD

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The excess cortisol of depression, old age, and hyperestrogenism often comes down with use of a thyroid supplement, but pregnenolone has a very direct action (in opposition to serotonin) that can quiet the pituitary, reducing ACTH and cortisol. Progesterone has some similar effects, and is protective against excess cortisol, and is a major factor in nerve and brain restoration.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml


Pregnenolone can lower blood sugar, so it is better to take it with a meal.
 

HDD

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Just read this on peatarian.com -


May I ask where you found this digram? RP mentions in some newsletters and interviews that pregnenolone can be converted to cortisol. He called it cortisol-theft. That's why most people have trouble with pregnenolone. The symptoms of the girl (woman?) described sound a lot like a testosterone/serotonin dominance. Since testosterone can be converted to estrogen it is possible that she had an estrogen dominance, too. But I have to say I seriously doubt it was brought on by a simple supplement of pregnenolone alone. In any case I would recommend using progest-e-complex immediately. It will lower serotonin and testosterone and oppose estrogen without any side effects.
commented Oct 13, 2012 by peatarian
http://peatarian.com/4562/can-pregnenol ... -estrogens
 

mandance

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Ive had similar issues for over a year from a high stress job and low carb diet, and got the brain fog also. Its been over a year and still cant make it go away so im not sure what to tell you about that other than do what you can with the diet and stress. I feel like my fog did go away for periods of time..usally when I was not working or around computers much or it could be a coincedence. Thyroid can make fatigue worse or better, depends on how you are dosing it. I got extreme fatigue from pure t3 before. Progest - e is safe but could give you anxiety...some users report that.

If you can reduce stress in your life, and get on track for a while with peating you should be alright. It takes awhile to get the ball rolling with the diet and you probably will have to fine tune it to meet your needs. It took me awhile to get it dialed in but it wasnt too hard for me though as I dont have many food sensitivities or anything like that. Preg is a nice supp, def mood raising...but dont take it all the time, just as needed maybe..I think for me that was like 50mg every 3 days or so. Good luck
 

tomisonbottom

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readforjoy said:
Not for sure. I did read somewhere that Peat said pregnenolone helps raise cortisol.


What that means, is that your body will make what it needs out of it; Pregnenolone is a pre-curser so if you don't have enough progesterone it will make progesterone. But it can also make DHEA which could be made into cortisol although I find it unlikely because if you're stressed then you would be low in progesterone so it would just make more progesterone.
 

TheCanadian

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Dec 18, 2013
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Pregnenolone is a hormone that will convert to either the Cortisol side or DHEA side , since many regulators are in place in excess cortisol it will increase DHEA to counterbalance the effects but the body never do adapt all perfectly and according to plan . The Cortisol Theft your talkin about is actually refered as a Pregnenolone Steal when the body start producing mainly Cortisol in the adrenal hormones production line . A prolonged stress exposure either physiological or psychological will induce this condition .

By the way your blood test are incomplete to determine something precisely and your diet seems less then perfect .
You would need a DHEA test done and most probably a RT3 to make sure.
 
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readforjoy

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My DHEA-S was 48 out of a range of 35.4-256 ug/dL.
My testosterone was less than 3 out of a range of 4-55 ng/dL which was flagged as Low.
RT3 was 34 out of a range of 13.5-34.2 ng/dL.
TSH was 5.72 out of a range of .45-4.5 which was flagged as High.

Since originally starting this post, I have tried to add in progesterone for the past 3 months unsuccessfully. Although it seemed to help my back pain and digestion, it made my fatigue and brain fog worse. I experimented with everything from 1 drop up to 100 mg + of progest-e multiple times a day up to 400 mg total in 24 hours. So I have recently given up on progesterone and gone back to just pregnenolone and T3.
 

BaconBits

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I still cant accept that Ray Peat does not believe that adrenal gland can atrophy or state of hypoadrenalism. When he talks about adrenal hormones he only sees a state of hyperadrenalism. But Ray Peats approach is somehow unique and theoreticly should work, eliminating stress from digestive track and if if a lot of pregnenolone goes to the the crashed adrenals it will somehow compensate. And pregnenolone production does need a fully functioning thyroid.
 

Mittir

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BaconBits said:
I still cant accept that Ray Peat does not believe that adrenal gland can atrophy or state of hypoadrenalism

Do you have any source where RP mentioned that?
 

BaconBits

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I dont know, everybody says that Ray Peat does not buy into the "adrenal fatigue" doctrine. Adrenal fatique is hypoadrenalism.
But yea, adrenal fatique term is abused a lot.
 

Mittir

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BaconBits said:
I dont know, everybody says that Ray Peat does not buy into the "adrenal fatigue" doctrine. Adrenal fatique is hypoadrenalism.
But yea, adrenal fatique term is abused a lot.

"Adrenal Fatigue" is not a scientific term and it was probably coined
by some alternative health practitioner. There are diseases related to
adrenal insufficiency. Adrenal glands use cholesterol to make cortisol.
So, lack of cholesterol can result in low cortisol.

In Josh Rubin interview on "Glycemia" RP answered a question on
"adrenal fatigue". He also mentioned studies where it showed pregnant animal
without adrenal glands stayed alive after giving birth when they were given
progesterone daily. Progesterone compensate for lack of adrenal.
There is a post on " Email advice depository" where RP answered
in detail his view on real adrenal insufficiency disease like Addison's disease.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=1035&start=30#p11607
 

BaconBits

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Mittir said:
"Adrenal Fatigue" is not a scientific term and it was probably coined
by some alternative health practitioner. There are diseases related to
adrenal insufficiency. Adrenal glands use cholesterol to make cortisol.
So, lack of cholesterol can result in low cortisol.

In Josh Rubin interview on "Glycemia" RP answered a question on
"adrenal fatigue". He also mentioned studies where it showed pregnant animal
without adrenal glands stayed alive after giving birth when they were given
progesterone daily. Progesterone compensate for lack of adrenal.
There is a post on " Email advice depository" where RP answered
in detail his view on real adrenal insufficiency disease like Addison's disease.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=1035&start=30#p11607

Cortisol is not made from cholesterol directly, its made from progesterone and progesterone is made from pregnenolone and pregnenolone is made from cholesterol.

The pathway from cholesterol to pregnenolone divides after that into progesterone (which goes into cortisol and aldosterone) and DHEA (which goes into estrogens and testosterone). Progesteron can also go into estrogens and testosterone.

The problem in adrenal atrophy is not in cholesterol, but in pregnenolone, not enough pregnenolone is made.
 

ddjd

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Jul 13, 2014
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I'm confused about whether pregnenolone raises or lowers cortisol, and whether I have high or low cortisol.

I've been very fatigued for the past 1 1/2 years. Have tried HC, NDT, and T3, but those didn't help. NDT and T3 make me more tired.

My latest cortisol test results are:

morning 4.1 (range 3.7-9.5)
noon .9 (range 1.2-3.0)
evening 1 (range .6-1.9)
night 1.1 (range .4-1.0)

Latest thyroid test:
TSH 5.72 (range .450-4.50), Free T3 3.3 (range 2.0-4.4), Free T4 1.06 (range .82-1.77)

A month ago I started on pregnenolone. Immediately I noticed improvements in my mood and mental clarity. But I was still tired. I read that pregnenolone and T3 work together synergistically so I added T3. Small amounts of both T3 and preg taken together throughout the day are helping my fatigue. The info I read said that T3 uses up cortisol and that preg helps make cortisol. Other sites have said that preg decreases excess cortisol.

Can anyone shed any light for me on what is going on with my cortisol? Any recommendations?

Thanks!
its been many years but i thought id ask how you got on? any progress?

i personally think pregnenolone can raise cortisol. which is a good thing for people like you and me who have low cortisol in the morning and high at night (we have remarkably similar labs)

i have personally found that pregnenolone goes so well with t3 because it increases cortisol. this is a whole area that is very controversial. but IME cortisol is necessary for t3 to work effectively in the body. pregnenolone is a great way to raise cortisol and to make this happen. alternatively you could test out this theory with adrenal cortex, this also works for me.

heres a quote that might help


How Does Glucose Enter Our Cells? | Recovering with T3 :

“Cortisol works to cause stored glucose to be released into the blood stream and enables healthy levels of blood sugar to be maintained (among other things). Clearly, cortisol is also involved in the anti-inflammatory response and in managing such things as blood pressure. However, for the purpose of discussing thyroid hormones it is cortisol's role in maintaining healthy blood sugar levels that should peak our interest.

Cortisol does NOT handhold thyroid hormone into our cells. Cortisol does NOT work with thyroid hormone or our cell membranes to allow the access of thyroid hormone (T4 or T3) to our cells. Cortisol does NOT allow thyroid hormones to bind with receptors in the cell nuclei. Cortisol has NO direct role with thyroid hormone uptake within our cells. This is a misunderstanding that has become a viewpoint that many thyroid patients hold today. This is also one of the critical items that Dr. John C. Lowe wanted me to make clear within 'Recovering with T3' and I believe that I have managed to do this with some help from John.

What cortisol does do is to raise blood sugar levels when needed to then encourage the production of insulin, which then enables a supply of glucose to our cells. This glucose supply, as already discussed, is critical to ATP production and the correct functioning of thyroid hormone within our cells.

Consequently, cortisol production and healthy adrenal glands is very critical to recovering from hypothyroidism. However, this is because of cortisol's role, with insulin, correct diet and digestive health in the process of supplying glucose to our cells."
 

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