Carnivore Diet

Razvan

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hey guys , I recently started to follow a ray peat diet but I got some acne in my face and some dandruff. Why when I was following a carnivore diet my skin and hair were perfect? And I felt amazing , when I was on the carnivore diet I even smashed PRs at the gym. I’ m 19 and i’ m 6 foot 3 , my goal is just to have bulking diet for the gym without having inflammation and acne and without getting insulin resistant. Please help me !
What would you think of a carnivore diet with lots of beef , butter , cheese but also some OJ and some fruits? Thank you i’ m new here.
 
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Razvan

Razvan

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What did your carnivore diet consist of?


My carnivore diet consisted of beef carpaccio , steak , liver ,eggs , cheeses like parmigiano reggiano or pecorino (I live in Italy)sometimes whole milk , sometimes seafood and butter as the main source of fat. Even if I ate 5000 calories I was still losing fat , but like i said i’m trying to gain a lot of weight but without getting inflammation ( acne,dandruff...) and without getting insulin resistant. I want to feel good gaining weight.
 
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you can eat almost any way you want if you are 19 but it will catch up to you.

How long were you on the carnivore diet? The bad effects can kick in after a year or so.
 
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Razvan

Razvan

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you can eat almost any way you want if you are 19 but it will catch up to you.

How long were you on the carnivore diet? The bad effects can kick in after a year or so.


Thank you brother !
I don’t want to try the carnivore diet anymore because I tried today , I ate 6 eggs some beef and butter and at the gym I felt like ***t , like a zombie ! Eating some haribos right now and feeling better So what would you recommend to gain a lot of weight but feeling good? Please help me
I feel like I need to eat 8000 cAlories if not my cortisol raises
 

redsun

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My carnivore diet consisted of beef carpaccio , steak , liver ,eggs , cheeses like parmigiano reggiano or pecorino (I live in Italy)sometimes whole milk , sometimes seafood and butter as the main source of fat. Even if I ate 5000 calories I was still losing fat , but like i said i’m trying to gain a lot of weight but without getting inflammation ( acne,dandruff...) and without getting insulin resistant. I want to feel good gaining weight.

The answer is simple, your diet on carnivore consists of almost entirely nutrient dense foods with cheese being possibly the only exception(the calcium and B12 are good still). You transitioned to a Peat diet and started likely consuming less nutrient dense calories and empty sugars.

Do not make the mistake of transitioning from nutrient dense to nutrient poor foods like many here have done. I was on the carnivore diet before so I have experience of worsening health when I started following Peat principles. All those foods on carnivore you have eaten are very good. You should simply avoid or severely limit very high fat foods(butter, cheese, limit milk) while sticking to leaner protein foods(meat, liver eggs, seafood) that you had on the previous diet and add in potatoes, rice possibly, fruits and orange juice. Empty carbs should be a very very small portion of your diet. Biggest mistake that makes a lot of people coming here end up with worse health before they get better is too many empty carbs and weak protein sources and overeating saturated fats because they are considered good though Peat himself says too much will be fattening.

This way you transition to carbohydrates for fuel and and get rid of the fats. Fat-burning is a catabolic state generally, thats why you can eat so much and not gain. High carb and freely eating fat is a recipe for getting overweight. On the other hand, carbohydrates in the form of starches and sugars + high quality protein(meat, liver, eggs, seafood) while limiting fat is the best way to gain weight(gain muscle) as this creates the optimal anabolic environment which is a plethora of the human body's preferred energy in the form of carbs with plenty of protein to build with.

Sticking to nutrient dense foods on the Peat diet should also clear up your acne is well. Lucky for you you havent degenerated health wise that much yet so do it right the first time while you can and avoid empty carbs as much as possible.
 
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Razvan

Razvan

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The answer is simple, your diet on carnivore consists of almost entirely nutrient dense foods with cheese being possibly the only exception(the calcium and B12 are good still). You transitioned to a Peat diet and started likely consuming less nutrient dense calories and empty sugars.

Do not make the mistake of transitioning from nutrient dense to nutrient poor foods like many here have done. I was on the carnivore diet before so I have experience of worsening health when I started following Peat principles. All those foods on carnivore you have eaten are very good. You should simply avoid or severely limit very high fat foods(butter, cheese, limit milk) while sticking to leaner protein foods(meat, liver eggs, seafood) that you had on the previous diet and add in potatoes, rice possibly, fruits and orange juice. Empty carbs should be a very very small portion of your diet. Biggest mistake that makes a lot of people coming here end up with worse health before they get better is too many empty carbs and weak protein sources and overeating saturated fats because they are considered good though Peat himself says too much will be fattening.

This way you transition to carbohydrates for fuel and and get rid of the fats. Fat-burning is a catabolic state generally, thats why you can eat so much and not gain. High carb and freely eating fat is a recipe for getting overweight. On the other hand, carbohydrates in the form of starches and sugars + high quality protein(meat, liver, eggs, seafood) while limiting fat is the best way to gain weight(gain muscle) as this creates the optimal anabolic environment which is a plethora of the human body's preferred energy in the form of carbs with plenty of protein to build with.

Sticking to nutrient dense foods on the Peat diet should also clear up your acne is well. Lucky for you you havent degenerated health wise that much yet so do it right the first time while you can and avoid empty carbs as much as possible.

Thank you for the answer my friend!
By the way the acne and the dandruff were the only two issues since starting peat because I feel amazing on this diet, but I want to look like it aswell
 
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Razvan

Razvan

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Thank you for the answer my friend!
By the way the acne and the dandruff were the only two issues since starting peat because I feel amazing on this diet, but I want to look like it aswell
The answer is simple, your diet on carnivore consists of almost entirely nutrient dense foods with cheese being possibly the only exception(the calcium and B12 are good still). You transitioned to a Peat diet and started likely consuming less nutrient dense calories and empty sugars.

Do not make the mistake of transitioning from nutrient dense to nutrient poor foods like many here have done. I was on the carnivore diet before so I have experience of worsening health when I started following Peat principles. All those foods on carnivore you have eaten are very good. You should simply avoid or severely limit very high fat foods(butter, cheese, limit milk) while sticking to leaner protein foods(meat, liver eggs, seafood) that you had on the previous diet and add in potatoes, rice possibly, fruits and orange juice. Empty carbs should be a very very small portion of your diet. Biggest mistake that makes a lot of people coming here end up with worse health before they get better is too many empty carbs and weak protein sources and overeating saturated fats because they are considered good though Peat himself says too much will be fattening.

This way you transition to carbohydrates for fuel and and get rid of the fats. Fat-burning is a catabolic state generally, thats why you can eat so much and not gain. High carb and freely eating fat is a recipe for getting overweight. On the other hand, carbohydrates in the form of starches and sugars + high quality protein(meat, liver, eggs, seafood) while limiting fat is the best way to gain weight(gain muscle) as this creates the optimal anabolic environment which is a plethora of the human body's preferred energy in the form of carbs with plenty of protein to build with.

Sticking to nutrient dense foods on the Peat diet should also clear up your acne is well. Lucky for you you havent degenerated health wise that much yet so do it right the first time while you can and avoid empty carbs as much as possible.

How would look a eating plan like this?
Protein from milk Greek yogurt and some beef and liver
Not to much saturated fat from some butter or coconut oil
And carbs from OJ , milk , fruits and some starch
And maybe some haribos after workout and sometimes some ice cream

What do you think? Thank you bro
 

lampofred

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hey guys , I recently started to follow a ray peat diet but I got some acne in my face and some dandruff. Why when I was following a carnivore diet my skin and hair were perfect? And I felt amazing , when I was on the carnivore diet I even smashed PRs at the gym. I’ m 19 and i’ m 6 foot 3 , my goal is just to have bulking diet for the gym without having inflammation and acne and without getting insulin resistant. Please help me !
What would you think of a carnivore diet with lots of beef , butter , cheese but also some OJ and some fruits? Thank you i’ m new here.

My guess is that the high cortisol from following a carnivore diet is very anti-inflammatory and that's why it works for so many at first. Eating carbs on the other hand won't give you that cortisol increase, but the high cortisol isn't sustainable in the long-run. I think the key is to increase your ability to oxidize glucose all the way to CO2 because CO2 has the anti-inflammatory effects just like cortisol but isn't destructive to your tissues. Unfortunately doing that basically requires a lifestyle shift. Depleting PUFA, increasing light exposure, coffee, aspirin will help, but it will take months at least.
 

redsun

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How would look a eating plan like this?
Protein from milk Greek yogurt and some beef and liver
Not to much saturated fat from some butter or coconut oil
And carbs from OJ , milk , fruits and some starch
And maybe some haribos after workout and sometimes some ice cream

What do you think? Thank you bro

Think protein with starch as the side e.g. steak and potatoes, liver and white rice. Make the potatoes which ever way you enjoy them. Juice or milk as a drink or even water and occasionally sodas. When consuming fruits, stick to ones with good nutrient content and not empty ones like apples. Oranges(hence the OJ), pineapples(very high in manganese, important for carb metabolism), kiwi, bananas, etc... Generally most tropical fruits are high in nutrients

One meal I sometimes have which is an all around good meal is lean sirloin with mashed potatoes or rice and have a bowl of plain full fat yogurt on the side then a tall glass with orange juice. Very well rounded meal with nutrients from both the animal and plant kingdom. High in protein and good amount of carbs that are both starch and sugars depending on how many potatoes or juice you have. Eat carbs and proteins to craving is usually the general rule and you'll usually end up at a decent amount of both at the end of the day.

Don't rely too heavily on sugars for carbs as starches are much better at filling muscle glycogen and likewise much better at maintaining and improving gym performace while fructose fills liver glycogen quicker(which reduces stress hormines) and liver glycogen is somewhat limited so there is no point on overdoing fructose.
 

CLASH

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@Razvan
Welcome to the forum man.

I came from a similar place to you back in the day (I was doing keto with butter, eggs, seafood, meat and greens [i have never realt been able to tolerate milk or dairy]). I did the whole peat runaround and settled back on my original diet of meat, seafood, and eggs, ditched the greens for carrots, used beef tallow more often than butter, and added in fruit juice and whole fruit.

As @redsun said maybe just try adding some fruit juice/ whole fruit and yams/ potatoes to the diet you already have and lower the fat intake a little in compensation (i’d personally avoid going too low as some may recommend here). I dont think you have to change anything else besides that, your diet is already pretty solid based on what your wrote.

I’m sure that you’ll wind experimenting but as a heads up I think you’ll find over time, as i did and many others do including @redsun, that refined foods incuding pure sucrose are not a good source of calories. Also, Starches can be hit and miss depending on the person. Dairy can be hit and miss as well, although you seem cool with it.

Just so your aware there is a general fat phobia on this forum. That being said I’d take all of our opinions with a grain of salt, and base the final say of things on how you feel and how you respond to something over a moderate period of time (sometimes eating things like cane sugar makes you feel good initially but after 2 weeks or so your body starts to crash from it with messed up teeth, weight gain, poor digestion etc.). Theres alot of opportunity to get caught up in sketchy ideas on this forum that can lead you down rabbit holes based on some seemingly well thought out logic, that ultimately results in worse health in the process.

Overall, I think if you stick to whole nutrient dense/ toxin poor foods like milk, butter, cheese, eggs, red meats/ organs, seafoods, yams/ sweet potatoes/ potatoes, carrots, and fruit juice/ whole fruit, all based on your tolerance to the individual foods, you’ll be pretty good. The rest is controlled careful experimentation on your part.

Good luck man.
 

redsun

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Also forgot to mention, for post workout, high glycemic carbs(quick digesting starches) like white rice with some protein post workout is preferred as it helps replenish muscle glycogen and lower catabolic stress hormones and increase protein synthesis. Sugars are ok post-workout but in my opinion make sure you have a high glycemic carb post-workout as well.
 

lampofred

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I think the people who are discouraging sugar consumption in favor of starch should preface what they're saying with the disclaimer that it goes against Peat's ideas.

I disagree that sugar should be replaced in favor of starch or that carbs should only be a minor part of the diet in favor of more nutrient dense foods. The better your conversion of carbs to CO2, the less nutrients you need. CO2 fills in for all missing nutrients in the Krebs cycle. If you focus on optimizing glucose to CO2 conversion (by lowering prolactin) you'll be able to get by on very little food and handle all sorts of stresses, whereas if you stick to starch and nutrient dense foods without focusing on improving glucose oxidation then if anything happens to interfere with your ideal food supply then your health will quickly go down the drain.
 

redsun

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I think the people who are discouraging sugar consumption in favor of starch should preface what they're saying with the disclaimer that it goes against Peat's ideas.

I disagree that sugar should be replaced in favor of starch or that carbs should only be a minor part of the diet in favor of more nutrient dense foods. The better your conversion of carbs to CO2, the less nutrients you need. CO2 fills in for all missing nutrients in the Krebs cycle. If you focus on optimizing glucose to CO2 conversion (by lowering prolactin) you'll be able to get by on very little food and handle all sorts of stresses, whereas if you stick to starch and nutrient dense foods without focusing on improving glucose oxidation then if anything happens to interfere with your ideal food supply then your health will quickly go down the drain.

Thing is there is nothing good about empty sugar except that is an appropriate, temporary fuel if proper food is not easily available or as occasional "treat". Its B-vitamins that are primarily responsible for optimal CO2 formation because they are required(as well as a few other micronutrients) for the citric acid cycle, proper glucose oxidation which maximizes CO2 formation. You can't optimize CO2 without optimizing food quality.

Peat does not advocate empty calorie foods, he says that sugar(cane sugar) can be used as a temporary therapeutic tool. Many here rely on empty sugar(or virtually empty) as a major part of their diet and wonder why they have issues. But thats the thing, its supposed to be temporary and on a daily basis should only be a small percentage of one's calories while the rest should be "whole" foods. Its not that sugar is harmful, its the exclusion of micros that is harmful, especially in the long term.

I didn't say sugar should be replaced in favor of starch. In the context of post-workout meal, high glycemic white rice which turns into glucose quickly helps refill muscle glycogen and also provides significant insulin release which is anabolic. I said he should include rice, not exclude sugar. Both types of carbs are probably better together post-workout.

Some fruits have virtually no vitamins or minerals like apples for example, there is literally no point in making them a major source of calories just like there is no point in using any other empty calorie food as a major source of nourishment. Nothing wrong with some sugar, I have soda everyday after all but I always rely heavily on actual nourishing carbs in my diet as well as good proteins.
 

tara

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Hi,
I have no experience eating a carnivore diet, but my impression from reading:
  • Take changes slowly and observe their effects on yourself. Your body will have made adaptations to the diet you have been eating, and may not be ready to instantly handle a sudden major overhaul.
  • I'd suggest starting by gradually adding in a variety of vegetables (including greens), fruits and roots, and see how you fare with them. These will provide more minerals and vitamins etc than if you go for too much refined carbs like refined sugar, white rice, white bread etc. Keep gradually increasing proportions week by week as long as it seems helpful. Once you've got used to a good portion of you diet being plants, you might want to vary it a bit more with other foods, but keep the fruit, veges, roots.
  • You could try some juice, but I'd start out with a little, not going overboard.
  • If milk makes you feel good, it's got some good stuff in it (works well for some, not for all).
  • Some people's guts and metabolisms seem to do better with more sweet food (sugars), others with more starchy, many with a balance of the two. Observe what works for you.
  • Try including a grated raw carrot (or just chewing on a whole one if you prefer that) to help keep the guts happy.
  • You can use cronometer or similar to get an idea of how you are doing for magnesium, potassium, calcium, etc.
 
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Razvan

Razvan

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Thanks to everyone. I think my body is really good at burning glucose and sugar in general , when I started peat 2 months ago I did low fat like 20 grams and 800 grams of carbs and that helped my metabolism that’s why i’m feeling so good. As I said the only problem for me is some acne and a lot of dandruff since peating but I really don’t know how to cure it.
 

tara

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I think my body is really good at burning glucose and sugar in general
Great.
As I said the only problem for me is some acne and a lot of dandruff since peating but I really don’t know how to cure it.
I don't know either, but looking at your micronutrients to see if you are covering everything well might show up gaps?
 
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Razvan

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Great.

I don't know either, but looking at your micronutrients to see if you are covering everything well might show up gaps?


what nutrients should I look for ? I downloaded cronometer now and I put my breakfast and lunch, here it’s 12 am, now I am going to have lunch.
These are my micros until now , i’m Thinking too much iron ? And I don’t take any supplements but being young I don’t have too much money for it, what would the supplements staples that I should take ? Thanks
 

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tara

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I'm not expert, but if you log a typical day or three and look over the vitamins and the minerals, and see if there are any that are below recommendations, you might want to see if you can fill them in - with food is good where you can.
Peat is quite keen on aiming for good calcium to phosphorus ratio. Milk, leaves, some fruits and veges are higher calcium. And some people get higher iron than is ideal (though some is needed).
 

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