Bernie Sanders Defends Democratic Socialism

[Braveheart]

 

[Kartoffel]

It must be so extremely refreshing for many people to listen to someone like him in a country where corruption and stupidity are all around you.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It must be so extremely refreshing for many people to listen to someone like him in a country where corruption and stupidity are all around you.

I must have missed the part where Bernie talks about eliminating the Federal Reserve, IRS, FDA, USDA, Social Security, Medicare, and the Board of Education.

 

[Kartoffel]

I must have missed the part where Bernie talks about eliminating the Federal Reserve, IRS, FDA, USDA, Social Security, Medicare, and the Board of Education.

Living in an Ayn-Rand eutopic phantasy where you just abolish all government institutions and everything will be peachy is all good and fine, but there millions of Americans living in a real crony-capitalist-dystopia right now, and I think they prefer a real alternative.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Living in an Ayn-Rand eutopic phantasy where you just abolish all government institutions and everything will be peachy is all good and fine, but there millions of Americans living in a real crony-capitalist-dystopia right now, and I think they prefer a real alternative.

Well, first off, the Federal Reserve isn't even a government institution. Anyway, your entire point was that there was a lot of corruption in the US, and to that I agree. Still, I have yet to see how any sort of socialism or communism would work without a centralized authority. I simply pointed out some institutions, mostly in the Federal Government, that are provably corrupt. The USDA, for example, has been poisoning hundreds of millions of Americans with their horrid iron fortification policy since the 40s, for example. The FDA is there to run cover for the pharmaceutical companies, not protect the public. This forum constantly talks about how third parties making decisions for your health (be they government, corporations, or non-profit organizations) causes so many more problems Why, as an alternative, would I want those same corrupt institutions to have MORE power? It doesn't make any sense.

The only time you will ever see me advocating for any type of communism or socialism is if I am one of the capitalists at the top, reaping all the windfalls of upwards movement of assets and money.

 

[Spondive]

Well, first off, the Federal Reserve isn't even a government institution. Anyway, your entire point was that there was a lot of corruption in the US, and to that I agree. Still, I have yet to see how any sort of socialism or communism would work without a centralized authority. I simply pointed out some institutions, mostly in the Federal Government, that are provably corrupt. The USDA, for example, has been poisoning hundreds of millions of Americans with there horrid iron fortification policy since the 40s, for example. The FDA is there to run cover for the pharmaceutical companies, not protect the public. This forum constantly talks about how third parties making decisions for your health (be they government, corporations, or non-profit organizations) causes so many more problems Why, as an alternative, would I want those same corrupt institutions to have MORE power? It doesn't make any sense.

The only time you will ever see me advocating for any type of communism or socialism is if I am one of the capitalists at the top, reaping all the windfalls of upwards movement of assets and money.

I agree that’s why I think it’s funny that people here keep using the RDA for nutrient amounts for health.. how can that be trusted?

 

[Tarmander]

ahhh people's addiction to violence, a tale as old as time.

 

[ShotTrue]

Well, first off, the Federal Reserve isn't even a government institution. Anyway, your entire point was that there was a lot of corruption in the US, and to that I agree. Still, I have yet to see how any sort of socialism or communism would work without a centralized authority. I simply pointed out some institutions, mostly in the Federal Government, that are provably corrupt. The USDA, for example, has been poisoning hundreds of millions of Americans with their horrid iron fortification policy since the 40s, for example. The FDA is there to run cover for the pharmaceutical companies, not protect the public. This forum constantly talks about how third parties making decisions for your health (be they government, corporations, or non-profit organizations) causes so many more problems Why, as an alternative, would I want those same corrupt institutions to have MORE power? It doesn't make any sense.

The only time you will ever see me advocating for any type of communism or socialism is if I am one of the capitalists at the top, reaping all the windfalls of upwards movement of assets and money.

+1. Doesn't communism just boil down to an eventual oligarchy/dictatorship?
Animal Farm was about this.

Most of the instances are with less developed countries though, so maybe one of the more developed Europeans should try it out for us. I say this because of centralized healthcare being spoken of highly in other places

 

[Kartoffel]

Well, first off, the Federal Reserve isn't even a government institution. Anyway, your entire point was that there was a lot of corruption in the US, and to that I agree. Still, I have yet to see how any sort of socialism or communism would work without a centralized authority. I simply pointed out some institutions, mostly in the Federal Government, that are provably corrupt. The USDA, for example, has been poisoning hundreds of millions of Americans with their horrid iron fortification policy since the 40s, for example. The FDA is there to run cover for the pharmaceutical companies, not protect the public. This forum constantly talks about how third parties making decisions for your health (be they government, corporations, or non-profit organizations) causes so many more problems Why, as an alternative, would I want those same corrupt institutions to have MORE power? It doesn't make any sense.

The only time you will ever see me advocating for any type of communism or socialism is if I am one of the capitalists at the top, reaping all the windfalls of upwards movement of assets and money.

There is no country on this planet without such institutions or a centralized government controlling them, and there never will be in our life times. Yet, there are countries, and there were times in the U.S., with institutions that were much less corrupt and more fact/truth oriented. They stopped working for the public once the indsutrial-military complex took them over completely. A realistic option cannot be to abolish these institutions. It's impossible and even if it were not, the alternative would likely be even worse since the big cooperations that control the institutions anyway would simply take over.
So, the realistic option is to get private money out of these institutions and the government. That's what Sanders is trying to do. He is not going to make the U.S. perfect, but I believe he would make it a little better. A final semantic sidenote: What Sanders calls socialism is just what Europeans have been doing for decades. I know words like socialism are impossible to use in the U.S. due to decades of indoctrination and right-wing propaganda, but it would be terribly exhausting to use terms like European-syle social-democratic policies or what they do in Sweden and Germany all the time.

+1. Doesn't communism just boil down to an eventual oligarchy/dictatorship? Animal Farm was about this.

Are you really unable to distinguish between communism and what Sanders is advocating? Have you ever opened a history or political science book, or watched anything else than Fox News?

 

[tankasnowgod]

So, the realistic option is to get private money out of these institutions and the government. That's what Sanders is trying to do.

If this is true, then why isn't Sanders yelling about auditing or shutting down the Federal Reserve? You can't get much more "private money" then they are. Again, the Federal Reserve is not a government agency, they are a private company that has a government contract, similar to Raytheon. United States Notes and Silver Certificates aren't really in circulation anymore. Why isn't Sanders advocating a return to the Treasury issuing money, and taking that away from a private entity?

 

[Kartoffel]

If this is true, then why isn't Sanders yelling about auditing or shutting down the Federal Reserve? You can't get much more "private money" then they are. Again, the Federal Reserve is not a government agency, they are a private company that has a government contract, similar to Raytheon. United States Notes and Silver Certificates aren't really in circulation anymore. Why isn't Sanders advocating a return to the Treasury issuing money, and taking that away from a private entity?

Perhaps because he would like to have a chance of winning the next election. Every Western country has an independent central bank, and adopting an anti-FED stance would probably add more fuel to the "Sanders is a crazy commi" fire. Maybe he also thinks it's unneccessary to close the FED because he knows that crypto will replace Fiat currencies soon, anyways.

 

[Braveheart]

There is no country on this planet without such institutions or a centralized government controlling them, and there never will be in our life times. Yet, there are countries, and there were times in the U.S., with institutions that were much less corrupt and more fact/truth oriented. They stopped working for the public once the indsutrial-military complex took them over completely. A realistic option cannot be to abolish these institutions. It's impossible and even if it were not, the alternative would likely be even worse since the big cooperations that control the institutions anyway would simply take over.
So, the realistic option is to get private money out of these institutions and the government. That's what Sanders is trying to do. He is not going to make the U.S. perfect, but I believe he would make it a little better. A final semantic sidenote: What Sanders calls socialism is just what Europeans have been doing for decades. I know words like socialism are impossible to use in the U.S. due to decades of indoctrination and right-wing propaganda, but it would be terribly exhausting to use terms like European-syle social-democratic policies or what they do in Sweden and Germany all the time.



Are you really unable to distinguish between communism and what Sanders is advocating? Have you ever opened a history or political science book, or watched anything else than Fox News?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Perhaps because he would like to have a chance of winning the next election. Every Western country has an independent central bank, and adopting an anti-FED stance would probably add more fuel to the "Sanders is a crazy commi" fire. Maybe he also thinks it's unneccessary to close the FED because he knows that crypto will replace Fiat currencies soon, anyways.

Ah, the same excuse Bill Clinton used for defending Senator Robert Bryd's 10 years spent in the KKK. He was just trying to win an election! So, either he supports the Fed, just like every other politician, or he is being deceitful to get elected to keep and/or increase his power, but this deceit is okay, because it's necessary. Either way, it's clear that Sanders doesn't have my best interests in mind, so there is no reason in the world for me to support him.

Funny, I don't recall anyone ever accusing Ron Paul of being a commie, and he literally wrote a book called "End The Fed."

 

[Kartoffel]

Ah, the same excuse Bill Clinton used for defending Senator Robert Bryd's 10 years spent in the KKK. He was just trying to win an election! So, either he supports the Fed, just like every other politician, or he is being deceitful to get elected to keep and/or increase his power, but this deceit is okay, because it's necessary. Either way, it's clear that Sanders doesn't have my best interests in mind, so there is no reason in the world for me to support him

Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, which candidate has your best interests in mind? Or who was it during the last election?

Funny, I don't recall anyone ever accusing Ron Paul of being a commie, and he literally wrote a book called "End The Fed."

Because he was a very strict libertarian, who thought that black people breed like rabbits to collect more welfare money. That aside, I liked many of Paul's positions.

 

[managing]

@Kartoffel hinted at this, but what really confuses me is why anybody thinks the US is or has ever been a "democratic socialist" economy/government? Sure, Bernie advocates some changes to that. But I can't help but wonder at how people get tweaked by the word "socialist" as if the US (or western Europe since WWII) has ever been anything but.

 

[managing]

If this is true, then why isn't Sanders yelling about auditing or shutting down the Federal Reserve? You can't get much more "private money" then they are. Again, the Federal Reserve is not a government agency, they are a private company that has a government contract, similar to Raytheon. United States Notes and Silver Certificates aren't really in circulation anymore. Why isn't Sanders advocating a return to the Treasury issuing money, and taking that away from a private entity?

I am curious if your entire condemnation of the FRB is that it is not a government agency? Or do you believe that it has/does/will do harm?

 

[Elie]

Not an American, but very impressed with Tulsi Gobard. She seems truely principled, not affraid to stand up to globalist BS even on the denocratic side and has a growing popular support relying solely on private donors.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@Kartoffel hinted at this, but what really confuses me is why anybody thinks the US is or has ever been a "democratic socialist" economy/government? Sure, Bernie advocates some changes to that. But I can't help but wonder at how people get tweaked by the word "socialist" as if the US (or western Europe since WWII) has ever been anything but.

You are correct in thinking that the United States has always been socialist, pretty much has been since it's inception in 1871. The United States of America never has.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I am curious if your entire condemnation of the FRB is that it is not a government agency? Or do you believe that it has/does/will do harm?

Of course it's done harm. It steals trillions of dollars every year from people, under the term "inflation." The Fed can print as much money as it wants for any reason, and doesn't have to tell anyone. With computers these days, it doesn't even have to print it. The Fed is not constitutional, and the Federal Reserve Act itself was passed under deceit and fraud.

 

[Kartoffel]

Of course it's done harm. It steals trillions of dollars every year from people, under the term "inflation." The Fed can print as much money as it wants for any reason, and doesn't have to tell anyone. With computers these days, it doesn't even have to print it. The Fed is not constitutional, and the Federal Reserve Act itself was passed under deceit and fraud.

True, and they also greatly intensify the fractional reserve policies of banks by lending them money whenever they need it. Even if these spectacularly risky buisinesses fail, they just bail them out by creating new money out of thin air.