Artemisinin - Loading Dosage?

Zpol

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@Sheila @bzmazu @lisaferraro

Hi all,

In your use of the Artemisinin supplement; did you start with a loading dose?

From my research, it is apparent that a person develops a resistance to the antibiotic/antiviral effects of Artemisinin after about 3 weeks. Bzmazu and Lisa, I see you take 200mg at night 4 days on and 3 days off now days, presumably to prevent the resistance. But what dose did you start out with and how long?
I would like to use this to clean up a bacterial overgrowth infection in my small intestines and then will continue with the 4days on 3days off dosage schedule.

Hope you can help! thanks!

Also, is there a particular brand you can recommend?
 
L

lollipop

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@Sheila @bzmazu @lisaferraro

Hi all,

In your use of the Artemisinin supplement; did you start with a loading dose?

From my research, it is apparent that a person develops a resistance to the antibiotic/antiviral effects of Artemisinin after about 3 weeks. Bzmazu and Lisa, I see you take 200mg at night 4 days on and 3 days off now days, presumably to prevent the resistance. But what dose did you start out with and how long?
I would like to use this to clean up a bacterial overgrowth infection in my small intestines and then will continue with the 4days on 3days off dosage schedule.

Hope you can help! thanks!

Also, is there a particular brand you can recommend?
Hi @Zpol, I actually only use 100mg at night before bed and have never used 200mg. The four days on/three days off has definitely kept me from becoming resistant. I also take off one to two weeks off between bottles. Simply adore this supplement.

Once when I was off between bottles, I must have had some food that was off at a restaurant. I could feel everything flare up so I took for 8 straight days - again only 100mg at night before bed. Then took three days off and started my normal cycle.

My thought was to make this a long term play and not try to go too fast or too strong. I use Dr. Best brand 100 mg caps and has 90 in the bottle.

Hope this helps :):
 
B

Braveheart

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No loading dose...Artemisinin 200 mg 4 days on 2 off...week off every 2-3 months...Nutricology, Dr's Best....leukemia no more?(white blood cell ct. perfect), prostate and gut problems no more....have added the leaf extract Artemisia 1 cap per day for insurance (research difference and benefits)....but often wonder how little I could take and still get results...haven't tried to experiment yet.
 

burtlancast

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Good news about enzyme induction by artemisinin; you can slow it down by taking at the same time Moringa herb.

What role does Moringa play?
Answer:
Moringa oleifera powdered leaves are used as a tumour substance in many countries. Its main usage is as a general immune systems stimulus. We often use it in combination with Artemisia for longterm treatments (AIDS, cancer, borreliosis etc.) Aids patients in Africa have emphasised to us that Artemisia therapy must always be supplemented by Moringa. Scientific literature states that Moringa slows the enzymatic decomposition of medicines (footnote 1). This could then mean that a combination of Moringa with Artemisia leads to Artemisia compounds staying in the bloodstream for longer:

These German folks have engineered an improved artemisinin plant (Anamed or A-3) with higher medicinal compounds, and have the track record to prove it.
 

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lollipop

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Good news about enzyme induction by artemisinin; you can slow it down by taking at the same time Moringa herb.



These German folks have engineered an improved artemisinin plant (Anamed or A-3) with higher medicinal compounds, and have the track record to prove it.
Very Interesting. Wonder where to buy their tea?
 

burtlancast

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By German law, they're obliged to sell their artemisinin leaves separately from their seeds.
Home - teemana | EN
 
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Braveheart

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Zpol

Zpol

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Good news about enzyme induction by artemisinin; you can slow it down by taking at the same time Moringa herb.



These German folks have engineered an improved artemisinin plant (Anamed or A-3) with higher medicinal compounds, and have the track record to prove it.

Thanks, this is very interesting! I noticed in this literature that there is no mention of developing resistance. The protocols they recommend are long term, no mention of taking breaks or cycling. I wonder if it's because the usage intent is to "balance" the immune system as opposed to using it as an antibiotic/antifungal. Also, the research indicates that it just plain doesn't work for some people... wonder why.

The addition of Moringa is also very interesting. My mom swears by this stuff to prevent colitis flare ups (which she had frequently and ended up in emergency a few of the times). The only reason I haven't tried it yet is because of the extremely high iron content. This aspect is concerning because of how iron overload can stimulate viral replication, however, the literature states that just the opposite happens so maybe there's a synergy of sorts that negates this undesired effect.

Thanks @bzmazu and @lisaferraro , this helps too! I think I will start with the caps because they will be easier and quicker to get via amazon but the A-3 powder has more research behind it so I'll probably switch (but is probably much more pricey). And I'll do the Moringa.
 

burtlancast

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The addition of Moringa is also very interesting. My mom swears by this stuff to prevent colitis flare ups (which she had frequently and ended up in emergency a few of the times). The only reason I haven't tried it yet is because of the extremely high iron content. This aspect is concerning because of how iron overload can stimulate viral replication, however, the literature states that just the opposite happens so maybe there's a synergy of sorts that negates this undesired effect.

"Research studies have shown that treatment with moringa leads to reduced ulceration and its efficacy in curing ulcerative colitis is comparable with the commercially available drug prednisolone"

One of their strong advantages is they had +10 years of clinical experimenting with local populations; and they mention they're amazed at how many conditions benefit from Anamed and Moringa.
And yes, 330 gr of raw Moringa leaves will give you 100% of your iron RDA.This is why they advise those with cancer who don't seem to benefit from Anamed leaves alone to add moringa.

And i would really be curious to investigate whether having prior chemo and radio will influence the response rate to Anamed.(...)

Thanks, this is very interesting! I noticed in this literature that there is no mention of developing resistance. The protocols they recommend are long term, no mention of taking breaks or cycling. I wonder if it's because the usage intent is to "balance" the immune system as opposed to using it as an antibiotic/antifungal. Also, the research indicates that it just plain doesn't work for some people... wonder why.

I suppose it's because they're not giving people purified artemisinin, but the whole plant containing about 20 additional anti-cancer compounds.
Q: Could you help us to obtain some artesunate?
No, it is not our job to smuggle drugs out of Belgium that one can only buy here on prescription! But we also believe that artemisia tea is better. According to the information given on the database of the famous ethnobotanist James Duke, the plant contains a total of 20 active ingredients with anti-tumour properties. This mixture of weapons makes it virtually impossible
for the tumour to develop resistance, e.g. against artemisinin.
Q: Could you explain the mechanism by which artemisinin destroys tumours?
Artesunate, or with tea the dissolved artemisinin, works in several ways. Compared with normal cells tumour cells have a high iron content. The artemisinin molecule contains a peroxide bridge. In contact with the iron this bridge breaks open and the oxygen reacts violently with the iron to form free radicals which combine with and paralyse the cancer cells, which then simply die.
Q. And the other ways in which artemisinin works?
Artemisinin, and I believe particularly our artemisia tea, leads to a significant strengthening in the immune system. We have seen this very dramatically with AIDS patients. A tumour is a foreign body a bit like an embryo in the womb. A pregnant woman quite naturally has a lower immunity, so that the embryo is not rejected. In the same way the tumour reduces the immune system of its host, in order not to be rejected. If the immune system is strengthened once again, it must be possible for the body to fight the tumour and destroy it. Artemisinin is in fact an immunomodulator– it brings the immune system back into balance, sometimes strengthening it, sometimes weakening it. Artemisia tea contains other immune-stimulants, viz. astralgin, coumarin and eupatorin. Our extensive experience shows that AIDS patients enjoy an even
greater strengthening of their immune system when they also take moringa leaf powder.
Q: Does the cancer then disappear?
We have experience with about 50 dogs whose tumours did not become smaller but became benign. This effect is known to be due to the fact that artemisinin prevents the production of new blood vessels which normally grow into the cancerous growth to feed it. This is known as the prevention of angiogenesis, the prevention of the formation of blood vessels. Thus we can say that the cancer has been choked! So that the treatment proceeds steadily, it is advisable to take the A-3 tea regularly in manageable amounts over a long period, and not to interrupt the
treatment.
 
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Braveheart

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Just happened to plant a moringa tree last year...next to the soursop...and it's a beautiful tall straight tree.
 
B

Braveheart

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Don't think I ever mentioned it, but Art. is an oxidant...so you want to take it away from your antioxidant, namely C....
 

Koveras

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I suppose it's because they're not giving people purified artemisinin, but the whole plant containing about 20 additional anti-cancer compounds.

Interestingly in malaria as well the dried leaf extract remains effective when there is resistance to artesunate. Compounds in the dried leaf extract seem to help absorption of artemisinin.

Artemisia annua dried leaf tablets treated malaria resistant to ACT and i.v. artesunate: Case reports. - PubMed - NCBI
Daddy NB1, Kalisya LM2, Bagire PG3, Watt RL4, Towler MJ5, Weathers PJ6.
BACKGROUND:
Dried leaf Artemisia annua (DLA) has shown efficacy against Plasmodium sp. in rodent studies and in small clinical trials. Rodent malaria also showed resiliency against the evolution of artemisinin drug resistance.
PURPOSE:
This is a case report of a last resort treatment of patients with severe malaria who were responding neither to artemisinin combination therapy (ACT) nor i.v. artesunate.
STUDY DESIGN:
Of many patients treated with ACTs and i.v. artesunate during the 6 mon study period, 18 did not respond and were subsequently treated with DLA Artemisia annua.
METHODS:
Patients were given a dose of 0.5g DLA per os, twice daily for 5d. Total adult delivered dose of artemisinin was 55mg. Dose was reduced for body weight under 30kg. Clinical symptoms, e.g. fever, coma etc., and parasite levels in thick blood smears were tracked. Patients were declared cured and released from hospital when parasites were microscopically undetectable and clinical symptoms fully subsided.
RESULTS:
All patients were previously treated with Coartem® provided through Santé Rurale (SANRU) and following the regimen prescribed by WHO. Of 18 ACT-resistant severe malaria cases compassionately treated with DLA, all fully recovered. Of the 18, this report details two pediatric cases.
CONCLUSIONS:
Successful treatment of all 18 ACT-resistant cases suggests that DLA should be rapidly incorporated into the antimalarial regimen for Africa and possibly wherever else ACT resistance has emerged.

Artemisinin permeability via Caco-2 cells increases after simulated digestion of Artemisia annua leaves. - PubMed - NCBI
ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:
Artemisia annua has been used for > 2000yrs to treat fever and is more recently known for producing the important antimalarial drug, artemisinin.
AIM OF THE STUDY:
Artemisinin combination therapies (ACTs) are effective for treating malaria, but are often unavailable to those in need. Dried leaves of A. annua (DLA) have recently been studied as a cost effective alternative to traditional ACTs. DLA was shown to dramatically increase oral bioavailability compared to pure artemisinin, so more investigation into the mechanisms causing this increased bioavailability is needed.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
In this study, we used a simulated digestion system coupled with Caco-2 cell permeability assays to investigate the intestinal permeability of DLA compared to pure artemisinin. We also determined the effects of different phytochemicals (7 flavonoids, 3 monoterpenes, 2 phenolic acids, scopoletin and inulin) and the cytochrome P450 isoform CYP3A4 on artemisinin intestinal permeability.
RESULTS:
Artemisinin permeability, when delivered as digested DLA, significantly increased by 37% (Papp = 8.03 × 10-5cms-1) compared to pure artemisinin (Papp = 5.03 × 10-5cms-1). However, none of the phytochemicals tested or CYP3A4 had any significant effect on the intestinal permeability of artemisinin. We also showed that essential oil derived from A. annua negatively affected the intestinal permeability of artemisinin, but only after simulated digestion. Finally, we showed that A. annua essential oil reduced the transepithelial electrical resistance of Caco-2 monolayers, but only in the presence of bile. Although also reduced by essential oils, artemisinin Papp subsequently recovered in the presence of plant matrix.
CONCLUSIONS:
These results shed light on the mechanisms by which DLA enhances the oral bioavailability of artemisinin.
 
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Zpol

Zpol

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"Research studies have shown that treatment with moringa leads to reduced ulceration and its efficacy in curing ulcerative colitis is comparable with the commercially available drug prednisolone"

One of their strong advantages if they had +10 years of clinical experimenting with local populations; and they mention they're amazed at how many conditions benefit from Anamed and Moringa.
And yes, 330 gr of raw Moringa leaves will give you 100% of your iron RDA.This is why they advise those with cancer who don't seem to benefit from Anamed leaves alone to add moringa.

And i would really be curious to investigate whether having prior chemo and radio will influence the response rate to Anamed.(...)



I suppose it's because they're not giving people purified artemisinin, but the whole plant containing about 20 additional anti-cancer compounds.

The iron is not that high and probably bound up in polyphenols.

Don't think I ever mentioned it, but Art. is an oxidant...so you want to take it away from your antioxidant, namely C....

Thank you for the links and research! This especially interesting since I've been on the fence about the Moringa for the past 4 yrs. (my mom certainly wants me to take it!). This info has convinced me to try it. Good point on the chemo and radio therapy. I'm guessing many people who try "alternative" routes, like Artemisinin, have already gone through the conventional route and are a wreck as a result.

But... isn't Moringa a potent antioxidant?
I've also read that the artemisinin should be taken away from antioxidants, so now I'm confused again. I will have to re-read the Anamed protocols but I'm pretty sure it said to take them together to get the synergistic effect.

Interestingly in malaria as well the dried leaf extract remains effective when there is resistance to artesunate. Compounds in the dried leaf extract seem to help absorption of artemisinin.

Ok so, as long as the supplement is the leaves only, it should continue to be effective long term. I still agree that cycling it or taking breaks is a good idea, as I do with all herbal supplements, but it's good to know I won't develop a resistance. Plus, happy to read there is a way around the resistance for those living areas where Malaria is rampant. I had read about this possibly becoming a big problem.
 
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Braveheart

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Yes, there will be conflicting/confusing info because there is a lot of new research and fedback coming out....it's a work in progress. Took me months to sort thru all the info and come up with what worked for me....dig, you will find the answers that you are looking for. Unfortunately some of my best references have mysteriously dissappeared.
 

burtlancast

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Unfortunately some of my best references have mysteriously dissappeared.

In case it could help, you can go into your browser's history tab and find all the websites you've visited for the past 3 months or more.
 
B

Braveheart

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Thank you, what I got was ....The Web server returns the "HTTP 404 - File not found" error message when it cannot retrieve the page that was requested. The following are some common causes of this error message: The requested file has been renamed. The requestedfile has been moved to another location and/or deleted.
 

achillea

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Dr Klinghardt uses Artimesinin for his autistic patients and liposomalizes it in an ultrasound jewelry cleaner. He says it makes it so it is better tolerated for long term use. We liposomalize it but we still go on and off just to be sure.
 
L

lollipop

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Dr Klinghardt uses Artimesinin for his autistic patients and liposomalizes it in an ultrasound jewelry cleaner. He says it makes it so it is better tolerated for long term use. We liposomalize it but we still go on and off just to be sure.
How do you liposomalize it @achillea?
 

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