Are There Any Anti-serotonin Drugs That Don't Lower Cortisol?

[Johnson Bagfoot]

I've had long term chronic fatigue, anxiety, insomnia - starting during 8 years on SSRIs and worsening significantly during discontinuation. Also, typical hypothyroid symptoms of low temperature, low pulse, although a reasonable TSH of 2.5.

One key finding this week was that my 8am peak cortisol is very low.

I had previously tried mirtazapine and cyproheptadine. Both of them made me feel far worse, mirtazapine worsened my sleep and morning anxiety, while cyproheptadine significantly lowered my already low pulse down to 40 or so and dropped my temps down to high 94s. However, cypro was definitely quite calming aside from the super slowed down metabolic rate.

In another experience a while ago, I also found psychedelic mushrooms (serotonin antagonist / or competitors) extremely calming in a similar way to cypro.


I'd like to try something with effects limited to being a serotonin antagonist, but without any effect on cortisol, since it should be raised if anything. Could anyone point me towards any pharmaceuticals with desirable mechanisms of action? Maybe another anti-histamine that doesn't blunt cortisol like cypro?

Johnson

 

[Arnold Grape]

I've mentioned Lysine a few times, and you can read about it elsewhere on this forum. Seems like it could have similar actions to Cypro - takes a few to get used to.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

I've mentioned Lysine a few times, and you can read about it elsewhere on this forum. Seems like it could have similar actions to Cypro - takes a few to get used to.

Hi Arnold, Thank you. Although I have read in some studies that lysine also seems to significantly lower cortisol, which is what I am trying to avoid?

Johnson

 

[DuggaDugga]

I've had long term chronic fatigue, anxiety, insomnia - starting during 8 years on SSRIs and worsening significantly during discontinuation. Also, typical hypothyroid symptoms of low temperature, low pulse, although a reasonable TSH of 2.5.

One key finding this week was that my 8am peak cortisol is very low.

I had previously tried mirtazapine and cyproheptadine. Both of them made me feel far worse, mirtazapine worsened my sleep and morning anxiety, while cyproheptadine significantly lowered my already low pulse down to 40 or so and dropped my temps down to high 94s. However, cypro was definitely quite calming aside from the super slowed down metabolic rate.

In another experience a while ago, I also found psychedelic mushrooms (serotonin antagonist / or competitors) extremely calming in a similar way to cypro.


I'd like to try something with effects limited to being a serotonin antagonist, but without any effect on cortisol, since it should be raised if anything. Could anyone point me towards any pharmaceuticals with desirable mechanisms of action? Maybe another anti-histamine that doesn't blunt cortisol like cypro?

Johnson

Why are you trying to raise your cortisol?

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Why are you trying to raise your cortisol?

Because it's abnormally low, below reference ranges. I assume it has something to do with my constant fight or flight, fatigue, etc. Perhaps symptomatic of some kind of secondary insufficiency that doctors have not yet found.

Or certainly, cortisol lowering drugs such as mirtazapine and cypro both had negative effects, so it's somewhat logical to think that increasing or not affecting cortisol would be a positive thing for me?

Johnson

 

[DuggaDugga]

Because it's abnormally low, below reference ranges. I assume it has something to do with my constant fight or flight, fatigue, etc. Perhaps symptomatic of some kind of secondary insufficiency that doctors have not yet found.

Or certainly, cortisol lowering drugs such as mirtazapine and cypro both had negative effects, so it's somewhat logical to think that increasing or not affecting cortisol would be a positive thing for me?

Johnson

Glucocorticoids are stress hormones that depress the immune system, have a catabolic effect on muscle protein, and cause insulin resistance. I don't think you want to increase their levels.

The kaleidoscope of glucorticoid effects on immune system. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of Glucocorticoids in the Immune System. - PubMed - NCBI
Glucocorticoid-induced muscle atrophy: mechanisms and therapeutic strategies. - PubMed - NCBI
Acute response of human muscle protein to catabolic hormones. - PubMed - NCBI
The effects of cortisol on insulin sensitivity in muscle. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Frankdee20]

Because it's abnormally low, below reference ranges. I assume it has something to do with my constant fight or flight, fatigue, etc. Perhaps symptomatic of some kind of secondary insufficiency that doctors have not yet found.

Or certainly, cortisol lowering drugs such as mirtazapine and cypro both had negative effects, so it's somewhat logical to think that increasing or not affecting cortisol would be a positive thing for me?

Johnson

Ever try Isocort or Licorice Tea (preserves mineral corticoids).

 

[Lurker]

I'm not sure the effects on cortisol but you might investigate first gen antihistamines found in Benadryl, Pepcid, Wal-Hist, some Unisom. BTW, cortisol is not a problem in its normal diurnal cycle. It's chronically high cortisol that's is a problem.

 

[togeprrriii]

I would be interested in answers to the opening question. So are there things that lower serotonin (signalling) without lowering cortisol, or at least with only minor cortisol-inhibiting effects?