Appetite/ I Have Endless Hunger, What To Do?

Makrosky

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Are you sure you are counting the calories in a proper way ? Like not confusing kcal with cal ? Sorry if this is obvious but 10k calories is A LOT unless you are doing some kind of extreme physical activity 8 or 10 hours a day.

I am very intrigued @Dino D are you under an insane ammount of stress or something ?
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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Are you sure you are counting the calories in a proper way ? Like not confusing kcal with cal ? Sorry if this is obvious but 10k calories is A LOT unless you are doing some kind of extreme physical activity 8 or 10 hours a day.

I am very intrigued @Dino D are you under an insane ammount of stress or something ?
I dont trully eat 10000 calories, but i have had days where i was close... its to much 4 me but i can make it hah... yesterday i ate like 6000 today 3000... I'm under stres from my insomnia, and I'm generally stressed... something happend years ago when my metabolism changed, carbs that relaxes mw before started to make me axious and give energy problems, bloating and what not... if I go keto many of that goes away but i feel bad on keto, libido gets down, energy, mood and so on... so Im stressed from insomnia, im stressed from carbs that make.me.crazy, and im stressed from low calorie and low carb that has not enought energy but it gives me improvememt of symptoms so i go to low carb days or low calorie days just to have some resr from the high calorie or high carb days that drive me crazy and to excited, like to much coffe coupeled with anxiety and still with fatigue and bloating, havines and what not, and there is the usual stress, life, busines, wife haha and so on :)

Edit: Keto Fixes My Insomnia And Caffeine Tolerance, Why? I wrote in this thread a lot about my symptoms...
 

Makrosky

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I dont trully eat 10000 calories, but i have had days where i was close... its to much 4 me but i can make it hah... yesterday i ate like 6000 today 3000... I'm under stres from my insomnia, and I'm generally stressed... something happend years ago when my metabolism changed, carbs that relaxes mw before started to make me axious and give energy problems, bloating and what not... if I go keto many of that goes away but i feel bad on keto, libido gets down, energy, mood and so on... so Im stressed from insomnia, im stressed from carbs that make.me.crazy, and im stressed from low calorie and low carb that has not enought energy but it gives me improvememt of symptoms so i go to low carb days or low calorie days just to have some resr from the high calorie or high carb days that drive me crazy and to excited, like to much coffe coupeled with anxiety and still with fatigue and bloating, havines and what not, and there is the usual stress, life, busines, wife haha and so on :)

The fact that you respond well to keto could be some insulin thing.
 
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Yeah, unless one eats a ton of fat or refined flour that wasn't very hydrated, it's really hard to eat that much. Maybe putting your diet on ccronometer and letting us have a look to see micros and macros could help.
 

Waremu

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In my experience eating starch caused this exact response. I would stuff myself until I was very bloated, but I never could become satiated, and I’d be very hungry an hour later. I would wake up all the time in the middle of the night STARVING.

Eating a lot of meat, fruit, and sugar satiates me and leaves me feeling great for hours on end, only needing snacks of fruit/sugar to maintain optimal moods. Not snacking on fruit/sugar just results in not as constant euphoric energy states, but eating this way avoids the often low energy, negative, or depressed moods that would come from eating a lot of starch.

I’d recommend trying to cut out starch and replace the calories with meat, eggs, fruit, and sugar. Your body is screaming for energy, but the starch is not and will never provide it. Animals, fruit, and sugar will.


Your experience with starch almost exactly matches mine. I was a huge pasta addict (Italian food was my first love) and just kept consuming more and more. For me it was like starch was in some weird way, addicting but never satiating until I ate so much of it that it was very unhealthy. After I replaced it with fruits/fruit juice, my satiation returned. I really think it has (at least partly) something to do with the magnesium and vitamin and other minerals I got from fresh fruit that I probably wasn’t getting as much of with starches like rice and pasta. It seems starch is what causes me to gain the most weight. When I cut it out I feel my energy isn’t cleaner and I am more satiated. I have also noticed that if I keep up with my zinc I take that helps me feel more satiated with meals as well. There was also the digestion and mood issues, likely from the endotoxin load and serotonin response or all the starch. I found my insomnia would also increase with starch consumption. I agree that it’s definitley worth a shot to cut starches out. It was probably the most problematic food for me next to PUFA.
 

Cirion

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I have consistently needed to eat 4000-6000 calories a day every day for quite some time. No idea how to fix it, but restricting isn't an option for me, every time I try the stress just increases further. I literally have insomnia from hunger induced stress with anything less than 5000 calories generally.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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I have consistently needed to eat 4000-6000 calories a day every day for quite some time. No idea how to fix it, but restricting isn't an option for me, every time I try the stress just increases further. I literally have insomnia from hunger induced stress with anything less than 5000 calories generally.

Yea, I saw your posts... youre deep into all of this :) have you also looked into worms/parasites?
 

Cirion

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Yea, I saw your posts... youre deep into all of this :) have you also looked into worms/parasites?

Yeah I really need to go see a holistic Dr. soon. I keep procrastinating because I dislike Dr.'s lol.

I think part of the problem is just being stuck in a chronic stressor. I am stuck in a stressor cycle because I can't get good sleep ever, which adds stress to the following day etc... bad sleep often can increase appetite and cause all sorts of other woes. More specifically, when you get into a cycle of high stress - low stress - high stress etc this is what tends to cause weight gain, sleep problems, etc etc. I start the day high stress from bad sleep, then low stress after bringing it down with food, then appetite is big because of cycling from high to low stress, then back to high stress. Rinse repeat. The trick is to get into a constant low stress cycle, then eventually appetite should drop...

For me it also increases "urgency" to eat to get more energy, not just from hunger itself. Since my energy levels are all over the map I'm always finding myself craving sugar to get the energy I need to survive the day.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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Yeah I really need to go see a holistic Dr. soon. I keep procrastinating because I dislike Dr.'s lol.

I think part of the problem is just being stuck in a chronic stressor. I am stuck in a stressor cycle because I can't get good sleep ever, which adds stress to the following day etc... bad sleep often can increase appetite and cause all sorts of other woes.

For me it also increases "urgency" to eat to get more energy, not just from hunger itself. Since my energy levels are all over the map I'm always finding myself craving sugar to get the energy I need to survive the day.
I can sleep only if i take 1. sleeping pils or benzos
2. If i dont eat or if i eat keto
3. If I take iron suplements
4. White noise once helped after 5-10 days
1,2,3. I avoid (im not anemic or low iron or low feritin)
4. I dont do because of my wife and because im lazy...

I didnt go 0 starch or fiber, i will try, i didnt go high fat while eating carbs i will try, and i never looked truly into parasites, i will try :)
 

Cirion

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I can sleep only if i take 1. sleeping pils or benzos
2. If i dont eat or if i eat keto
3. If I take iron suplements
4. White noise once helped after 5-10 days
1,2,3. I avoid (im not anemic or low iron or low feritin)
4. I dont do because of my wife and because im lazy...

I didnt go 0 starch or fiber, i will try, i didnt go high fat while eating carbs i will try, and i never looked truly into parasites, i will try :)

Interesting, if iron supplements help, maybe you are actually deficient? How do you know you're not low, what are your ferritin levels? Paging @Douglas Ek ! It seems douglas found that for the same ferritin level, some people may have deficiency symptoms but take that same ferritin level to someone else they may feel toxicity symptoms.

White noise is very effective. I always run a box fan near me even in winter, just for the white noise.

Not eating makes it very hard for me to sleep lol.

I definitely think minerals play a part. As I write this, I'm finishing off my grass fed beef and feel almost 100% alert and normal. Beef is loaded with bunches of glorious minerals, yes, including Iron.

I think this may be why I can't tolerate caffeine. Coffee can deplete minerals so if you're already low that's problematic.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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Interesting, if iron supplements help, maybe you are actually deficient? How do you know you're not low, what are your ferritin levels? Paging @Douglas Ek ! It seems douglas found that for the same ferritin level, some people may have deficiency symptoms but take that same ferritin level to someone else they may feel toxicity symptoms.

White noise is very effective. I always run a box fan near me even in winter, just for the white noise.

Not eating makes it very hard for me to sleep lol.
I contacted him, nice guy :)
Yea, maybe im low, but its more like im not using it right... could be low copper, ceuroplasmin and so on... working on it ;)

I think i told you before, you could try iron for 3 weaks, 30 mg a day... its not at all that toxic as people here dogmaticaly present it...
Edit: ferittin goes also up from inflamation... so high ferittin could still be low iron...
 

Cirion

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I need to get back to using my nutritional yeast on a daily basis, I started getting lazy.

I think the B vitamins and minerals very much matter. So back to restricting caffeine and bringing back the yeast. Caffeine probably dumps B vitamins also. I wonder if too much sugar may dump too many nutrients too? Might there be a case for high-ish fat moderate sugar instead of moderate/low fat and high sugar for this reason for someone who has less than optimal metabolism? This could explain why you do well on keto? FWIW I do pretty well on keto too.

Which specific supplement did you use for iron?
 
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Dino D

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I need to get back to using my nutritional yeast on a daily basis, I started getting lazy.

I think the B vitamins and minerals very much matter. So back to restricting caffeine and bringing back the yeast. Caffeine probably dumps B vitamins also. I wonder if too much sugar may dump too many nutrients too? Might there be a case for high-ish fat moderate sugar instead of moderate/low fat and high sugar for this reason for someone who has less than optimal metabolism? This could explain why you do well on keto? FWIW I do pretty well on keto too.

Which specific supplement did you use for iron?
The only change from b vitamins for me is yellow pee and more apetite...

I used few cheap ones...
Now i have gentle iron from solgar, i think any decent brand is ok...
Iron was a life saver for me 3 years ago... i had super intense tinitus and without going so deep into nutrition like here on this forum i found on a youtube video with robot voice that it could be iron, and abracadabra after one weak of taking iron it got a lot better, after one month i was super easy on my feat, tinitus almost 0... now i dont take iron and the tinnitus is always there but not that strong like 3 years before... i dont take iron anymore for the last 2 years, sometimes i take it just for a weak... i think it does not affect tinitus as good as before or maybe i just need a bit more time... iron helps with libido, condition, erection, bloating, air hunger and sleep and everything, but all of my blood test are super great every time, thats why i back off from taking lot of iron... maybe its more about copper but i dont notice improvements from eating more copper rich foods... but also i never ate liver consistently...
 

Cirion

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I think the folks who promote metabolic stimulants forget that an increased metabolism comes at the expense at more than just increased calories but also increased requirement for micronutrients. in an already compromised metabolism with deficient nutrients, you're just adding to your nutritional debt, which tends to explain the brain fog a few hrs after coffee intake (at least for me). So I really think relying on caffeine to get more energy or whatever is a mistake (at least based upon my experiences). I think it's best reserved for emergencies (like I have a big important presentation at work and NEED to be awake for).

I see these threads where people take obscene quantities of aspirin, coffee, etc, and I'm here at my keyboard just shaking my head lol.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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I think the folks who promote metabolic stimulants forget that an increased metabolism comes at the expense at more than just increased calories but also increased requirement for micronutrients. in an already compromised metabolism with deficient nutrients, you're just adding to your nutritional debt, which tends to explain the brain fog a few hrs after coffee intake (at least for me). So I really think relying on caffeine to get more energy or whatever is a mistake (at least based upon my experiences). I think it's best reserved for emergencies (like I have a big important presentation at work and NEED to be awake for).

I see these threads where people take obscene quantities of aspirin, coffee, etc, and I'm here at my keyboard just shaking my head lol.
Coffee is also bad for me, but not so much on keto... also, if I take iron i can drink more coffee...
I think the folks who promote metabolic stimulants forget that an increased metabolism comes at the expense at more than just increased calories but also increased requirement for micronutrients. in an already compromised metabolism with deficient nutrients, you're just adding to your nutritional debt, which tends to explain the brain fog a few hrs after coffee intake (at least for me). So I really think relying on caffeine to get more energy or whatever is a mistake (at least based upon my experiences). I think it's best reserved for emergencies (like I have a big important presentation at work and NEED to be awake for).

I see these threads where people take obscene quantities of aspirin, coffee, etc, and I'm here at my keyboard just shaking my head lol.
Coffee is bad for me also, aspirin also... we are similar im a way

They are guys on this forum who suggested that carbs are to much of a stimulant 4 me... they suggested eating two times, low carb style... it helps but i dont belive its the solution, maybe youre doing it also wrong with high carb stimulation because youre deficient... and maybe, who would wonder, its iron!
Eggs shot down iron absorbtion, dairy does also, starch does also...

Yea, when i took iron for 3 months (3 years ago) my appetite never went into endless hunger mode and i lost some weight without a diet... the only reason why im not taking iron daily is this group...
 
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@Dino D
I told you before I believe we have exactly the same condition. I went through years of constant hunger stuffing myself to death and yet being hungry in 30 minutes later.

Do PUFA depletion, it can greatly reduce this endless hunger. Check if you are MTHFR mutation carrier it can cause NAFLD. MTHFR/NAFLD issue can greatly diminish glycogen storing capacity of your liver. This test could be kinda expensive so you can just supplement choline and betaine or TMG to see if it helps. This is what helped me a lot. Still cant conquer my insomnia but choline/betaine/caffeine seem to be helpfull and I see huge improvements.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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@Dino D
I told you before I believe we have exactly the same condition. I went through years of constant hunger stuffing myself to death and yet being hungry in 30 minutes later.

Do PUFA depletion, it can greatly reduce this endless hunger. Check if you are MTHFR mutation carrier it can cause NAFLD. MTHFR/NAFLD issue can greatly diminish glycogen storing capacity of your liver. This test could be kinda expensive so you can just supplement choline and betaine or TMG to see if it helps. This is what helped me a lot. Still cant conquer my insomnia but choline/betaine/caffeine seem to be helpfull and I see huge improvements.

:) this year is our year ;)
We will make it hehe
 

tara

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Some suggestions from a non-expert, informed by reading some of Peat and various others ...


I'm not sure how old you are - whether you are still growing (up to about 25years)?
According to Gwyneth Olwyn (edinstitute), normal calories for a growing young man are around 3500 cals, 3000 once fully grown, and probably a couple of hundred more if extra tall like you. This is based on measuring what normal people eat, not the usual studies based on inaccurate self-reports.

Some thoughts on food that might or not be useful for you to try:
  • Try for a reasonably stable pattern for a while, and varying it in smaller ways rather than wild swings, so you have a better chance at seeing the effects.
  • Try for 3000 - 3500 cals every day for a bit
  • Favour saturated fats over PUFAs.
  • Favour roots and tubers over large amounts of grains. (Minerals.)
  • Favour fruits and juices over large amounts of refined sugars. (This can improve potassium and other minerals.)
  • Exactly what balance of macronutrients is going to work for you is probably personal, and may vary over time. But as a rough starting guess, I'd suggest trying at least 2:1 carbs to protein, and less but some saturated fat at most meals. Some seem to do well with very low or quite high fat, but a moderate amount might work for you, so I'd try that before going extreme.
  • Experiment with the balance between sweet and starchy foods to see what gives you reasonable energy. This seems to vary a lot from person to person. Consider starting with half of each, and varying a bit up and down to see which goes better.
  • Experimenting to see whether you notice that you feel better or worse from milk and other dairy.
  • Add in vegetables that agree with you. Some well-cooked greens with broth can be a good source of magnesium and other minerals. If the fibre bothers, the broth is valuable. Magnesium deficiency can leave people feeling chronically stressed.
  • Include a serving of liver every week or so (or smaller servings two or three times). Find a source of fresh liver (you can freeze it fresh in serving sizes), or a liver pate you like, and find a way to prepare, eat and enjoy it - it's a good natural multivitamin and mineral source.
  • If you can get oysters, some of them every week or so is the richest natural source of zinc.
  • Drink to thirst and salt to taste.
  • Look at overall nutrition for a few days, eg using cronometer or similar, and see a rough estimate what you are getting of all the nutrients. Post pictures or report here only if you want to. See if you can find food sources you can enjoy to boost any lows. If you can't do it with food, consider or ask about supplementing.
Consider meal timing. Some of us do better eating mostly during the day, and not so much evening and night. Some of us need to get some carbs and maybe fat in at supper time to fill glycogen enough to get s through the night. Some do better with smaller frequent meals, while others can manage fine with 3 meals a day (or even fewer), maybe depending on glycogen storage capacity. If you don't have a starting point you think works, consider decent breakfast, solid lunch, lighter dinner, and a snack in between and at supper.

Other factors - Getting regular sunlight? Do you breath through your nose at night?

I doubt that... and i generally dont belive in the worms and parasites theory... its the anti candida story and I was ,,a victim" of those lies yeara ago... still you never know, it could be that... so my hunger starts with eating and its way before it gets to the darm or where those worms should be... there is also never anythin in my stool... if you have worms you should see them, its a worm not a molecule...
You don't have to believe in worms for them to get food from you. You don't necessarily see the evidence of them. Worms etc are not the same as candida. Most likely way to see evidence is to take herbs or pharmaceuticals that kill parasites, and inspect stool close afterwards (more closely than most people want to do :)). I have no idea whether or not you have any, but it does happen.
But there are probably other explanations for your hunger too.

I think the B vitamins and minerals very much matter.
+1
 

Lilac

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You mentioned pasta and bread. Years ago, before my eating reforms, I ate large portions of these foods. If I baked bread, I was liable to cut slice after slice. And homemade pizza. Ate plenty of slices hot, then couldn't resist the room-temperature leftovers. I went through a Wheat Belly phase, and it was helpful in many ways. Dr. Davis talks about wheat's opiate qualities. So maybe try eliminating wheat.

I also recommend some liver. I don't think anybody overeats that.
 

tara

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You mentioned pasta and bread. Years ago, before my eating reforms, I ate large portions of these foods.
I've been known to get like that around wheat too. I don't think my gut likes it much either. I mostly avoid now too.
I agree it's worth a try skipping it.
 

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