6 Years Later, Sleep Temperature Is Still The Only Thing That Works

[MyUsernameHere]

@MyUsernameHere have you tried calories surplus?

When I initially started Peating I was eating 3500-4000 kcal daily, mostly raw dairy and orange juice among other things, I gained something like 40 lbs within 2 years, trying to "boost my metabolism", and I still had all my symptoms and felt no better, as well as being depressed about being fat again. I was around 200 lbs.

Now I'm around 160 lbs again and actually feel much better despite eating less and being thinner.

I know it sounds logical that if fasting wrecked your metabolism, overeating should help it, but it's not that simple sadly. My TSH during the time I overate was something like 7, and my most recent one was around 3.5...

 

[nbznj]

eating all the time works well indeed. Or in a Ray Peat context, drinking 1 OJ and 2 quarts milk. Bring 3 quarts at work and sip on it. Whatever, calories in, cortisol/adrenaline nice and low. I also have a morning shaker of bone broth, chia seeds, lime. Milk is full fat to stay satiated and avoid allergens

Snacks because chewing something feels good too: dark chocolate, banana... dinner: omelettes, purees, whole chicken

I'm basically never cold. Girls that have been sleeping with me through the years are always frozen when I'm hosting them for the night. 17-18ºC at home no problem

 

[lollipop]

Regarding arrhythmia, I take Zeta Aid, formulated by Dr. T.C. McDaniel. He is 103 years old and cured his own arrhythmia when he was in his late 50s. I buy it in bulk and comes to $10 per month. It prevents heart disease and kidney stones.

Regarding your sleep, your bed might be in a 'bad spot'. I have experimented with shielding under the mattress, I use aluminum fly screen connected with a wire to ground. Sometimes, I sleep with a 9V battery connected in the ground wire, such that the positive pole is connected to the screen and the negative pole connected to the safety ground of a 110V outlet. This also completely eliminated the sleep problem of a teenager with ADHD, he is now free of the ADHD symptoms.

With 'bad spot' I mean noxious earth energies. They seem to exist, I have a Ph.D. in physics but cannot explain this. Keep an open mind. Do you sleep better while not at home? This could be an indicator.

Very interesting @BrianF I agree with @ecstatichamster AMAZING.

 

[theLaw]

When I initially started Peating I was eating 3500-4000 kcal daily, mostly raw dairy and orange juice among other things, I gained something like 40 lbs within 2 years, trying to "boost my metabolism", and I still had all my symptoms and felt no better, as well as being depressed about being fat again. I was around 200 lbs.

Now I'm around 160 lbs again and actually feel much better despite eating less and being thinner.

I know it sounds logical that if fasting wrecked your metabolism, overeating should help it, but it's not that simple sadly. My TSH during the time I overate was something like 7, and my most recent one was around 3.5...

Just a thought: Fasting is basically idiot-proof (just don't eat), where as increasing calories with a particular healthy diet is much more complex with many more variables, but also healthier in the long-run.

 

[YourUniverse]

Regarding arrhythmia, I take Zeta Aid, formulated by Dr. T.C. McDaniel. He is 103 years old and cured his own arrhythmia when he was in his late 50s. I buy it in bulk and comes to $10 per month. It prevents heart disease and kidney stones.

Regarding your sleep, your bed might be in a 'bad spot'. I have experimented with shielding under the mattress, I use aluminum fly screen connected with a wire to ground. Sometimes, I sleep with a 9V battery connected in the ground wire, such that the positive pole is connected to the screen and the negative pole connected to the safety ground of a 110V outlet. This also completely eliminated the sleep problem of a teenager with ADHD, he is now free of the ADHD symptoms.

With 'bad spot' I mean noxious earth energies. They seem to exist, I have a Ph.D. in physics but cannot explain this. Keep an open mind. Do you sleep better while not at home? This could be an indicator.

Can you outline in more detail how you grounded your bed? So you put an aluminum fly screen on the underside of your bed, connected it to a battery, connected that to the grounding port of an outlet, and your entire bed was then grounded? Wouldnt your skin have to be in contact with the sky screen?

 

[JohnA]

When I initially started Peating I was eating 3500-4000 kcal daily, mostly raw dairy and orange juice among other things, I gained something like 40 lbs within 2 years, trying to "boost my metabolism", and I still had all my symptoms and felt no better, as well as being depressed about being fat again. I was around 200 lbs.

Now I'm around 160 lbs again and actually feel much better despite eating less and being thinner.

I know it sounds logical that if fasting wrecked your metabolism, overeating should help it, but it's not that simple sadly. My TSH during the time I overate was something like 7, and my most recent one was around 3.5...

As I've mentioned in the Temperature Reset thread, I've been playing around with these body temperature concepts since about October 2016, and it's helped me reach and maintain a pretty optimal level of health with a high calorie, low exercise, non-orthorexic lifestyle.

The one-time Steve Richfield temperature reset seems to work best if your setpoint was reduced dramatically by an acute event such as surgery. For people on this forum whose temperatures' gradually dropped as a result of undereating, slow metabolism, hypothyroidism, etc., you need to combine dressing warmly with other Peaty interventions. Artificially raising body temperature by dressing warmly will provide relief of symptoms, but won't permanently FIX your low metabolism. But artificially raising body temperature by dressing warmly will positively shift your hormonal profile (less cortisol and other catabolic hormones, more anabolic hormones, less excess calories being shuttled to adipose tissue, etc.) so that dietary interventions work better.

I think you should give overeating another shot while your body temperature is artificially raised. Based on a lot of readings, I'm convinced that the body uses energy differently based on the body's perception of external food availability. When body temperature is warm and there's lots of light, the body thinks the season is summer and is more likely 1) to use energy to increase metabolism or rebuild organs, 2) burn off excess calories through dietary thermogenesis, 3) and send appetite signals that you are full. When body temperature is cooler and there's less light, the body thinks the season is autumn or winter, and is more likely 1) to conserve energy in adipose tissue for the upcoming famine, and 2) send appetite signals to keep eating.

In other words, I'm arguing that some people could minimize the dreaded Ray Peat diet weight gain if they started the diet after getting warm.

 

[stevensmith]

To the OP, your experience resonates with mine a great deal. Over the years I have tried dozens of diets to fix my hormonal problems. My metric of whether something works or not has to do with the quality of my erections. Back when I had low testosterone, I would never wake up with morning erections. One day I noticed that whenever I went camping I almost always woke up with strong morning erections. I slept in a warm sleeping bag at the time, which really held the heat in. Realizing this, I tried sleeping in a sleeping bag at home, along with wool socks and pajamas- it worked! I also noticed that sleeping with the window cracked to bring fresh air in helps improve sleep for me (but not really an option in the winter). Indoor air quality diminishes after only a few days, so regularly airing out your bedroom can help. Taking a warm bath before bed can lower cortisol and help you sleep better and warmer.

Sleeping warm shifts the nervous system to the parasympathetic, lowering cortisol and moving blood into the periphery of the body. Blood flow in the periphery of the body is regenerative to vital tissues/organs. According to Haidut, people hundreds of years ago considered cold temperatures a risk to health. They would try to avoid it at all costs, bundling up, putting towels at the base of doors, covering up windows that have drafts, often having sleep wear with socks and caps. Back then it was just common knowledge. People also slept much longer in the winter like up to 14-16 hours per day. The longer you are in bed, the more time you have to become and stay warm. Sometimes the ambient cold temperatures can make it difficult to fall and stay asleep, especially in those prone to insomnia or hypothyroidism. Some people take longer to warm up. For these people having extra time to sleep can help a great deal. Poor sleep duration is a common cause of low morning temperatures. Even the though of having to wake up in a short period of time (like six hours for example) can prevent normal sleep rhythms and cause anxiety, impairing REM cycles.

Years ago, my low T was induced by both inadequate calories and insomnia. Increasing calorie intake and learning not to give a **** were some of the best things I've ever done. I learned to shift my thoughts from "great it's 2:30am and I'm here lying in bed unable to sleep, and I have to wake up in three hours," to "this bed is so comfortable, I don't give a **** if I sleep only two hours tonight, those two hours are going to be amazing." So in many ways metabolism is not just about diet strategies but also lifestyle and even our thoughts. Since thoughts have an effect on our cortisol levels, it's no wonder why so many people have thyroid problems today. People are not prioritizing down time at night without television. Blue light at nigh stimulates cortisol release and prolongs the onset of REM sleep.

Orthomolecular diet strategies never really worked for me. Pretty much the only main things I follow pretty religiously from Peat are eating as little PUFA as possible and striving to control endotoxin levels through various means (raw carrots, easily digestible foods, fasting occasionally). After I gravitated to Matt Stone, things began to improve for me a great deal. He has been wrong about a lot of things over the years, but his most recent work (before he retired from writing health articles and books) worked for me. Focus on your urine color. If your urine is clear, drink less fluids. Your urine should have some yellow in it. This goes against what Peat talks about with drinking so much milk and orange juice, but it really works. So many people who follow Peat are drinking a ton of fluids and ignoring their bodies talking to them. I suspect that this is one of the main reasons why people fail to bring their temperatures up following Peat's work.

Try eating solid foods (heck even bread and pasta if you have to). Ensure adequate sodium intake as well. Making sure that your pee is yellow should make you feel a lot warmer and bring your temperatures up. When you drink less fluids, you actually don't need to eat so many calories to increase your metabolic rate. The water content of food increases the need for calories for thermogenesis. So no, you don't have to erroneously chase a high calorie diet and get fat in the name of health. I suggest checking out Matt's book "Eat for Heat" if you are interested in bringing temps up through food. It was a real eye-opener for me, and most of it is pretty obvious, but you will see the errors in drinking copious amounts of fluids and not eating enough solid food.

P.S. I no longer sleep in a sleeping bag in my bedroom. I have a space heater in my room to ensure the room is warm in the winter. I also have fleece/flannel sheets. And believe it or not, making your bed, and curling the top sheets under the mattress help keep the heat in- go figure! I guess our mothers were right about the importance making our bed.

 

[nbznj]

great write up. I agree that generally, drinking too much raises my TSH which I check quarterly - I've been trying a number of different diets that I try to stick to for a couple months at least. Hardcore Peating with high fluid intake isn't natural IMHO. The only fluids humans should drink are water and eventually high quality milk - I go for skim goat milk when I'm working out. But then it's water and water only.

A good solution to eating a lot of plants is to purée them. I don't think this is a problem for body temp

 

[churchmouth]

Do you not ever wake up in the middle of the night super sweaty? I seem to suffer from this if I go to bed with enough blankets to feel warm.

 

[cyclops]

I always sleep terribly if too hot or even warm. I've always heard it best to sleep in a very dark and cool room. Seems to work for me.

 

[stevrd]

I always sleep terribly if too hot or even warm. I've always heard it best to sleep in a very dark and cool room. Seems to work for me.

I agree that the room should be somewhat cool. For me, it has to do with the air I am breathing. I feel that the body senses the density of air and in a warm bedroom, the air tends to get stuffy. When I am able (when it's not freezing our too hot out) cracking a window with cool air coming in always gives me deeper sleep than with the windows shut.

Do you not ever wake up in the middle of the night super sweaty? I seem to suffer from this if I go to bed with enough blankets to feel warm.

This happens from time to time. The first thing I do is remove all my clothing and sleep naked. If that doesn't work, I will shed some layers of blankets.

 

[bawild]

I've been here since 2012, experimenting with this and that, since I developed hypothyroidism and an overall nervous breakdown (constant adrenaline, tightness in chest, heart palpitations etc.).

In those 6 years I've tried every diet variation possible, and most supplements, and nothing worked. I was in chaos mode for years.

Have you been assessed for sleep breathing problems? Do you get up at night to urinate? I had the exact same symptoms. Obstructive apnea is not an old fat guy condition. Dr Steven Parks will tell you most his patients with sleep breathing disorders are young and thin with narrow jaw development. Many do not snore. All my anxiety, adrenaline, depression, palpitations are completely gone now that I've treated the apnea.

 

[stevrd]

great write up. I agree that generally, drinking too much raises my TSH which I check quarterly - I've been trying a number of different diets that I try to stick to for a couple months at least. Hardcore Peating with high fluid intake isn't natural IMHO. The only fluids humans should drink are water and eventually high quality milk - I go for skim goat milk when I'm working out. But then it's water and water only.

A good solution to eating a lot of plants is to purée them. I don't think this is a problem for body temp

I didn't think of fluids increasing TSH, but it seems like a reasonable theory. The mechanism probably has to do with the dilution of the blood solutes/minerals affecting cellular signaling, and potentially (especially in the presence of FFA from PUFA if the diet has been high in it for a long time) water retention since PUFA is hydrophillic. Thank you for that.

 

[Luckytype]

It kills me to read this.

I used to be comfortable in bed years ago, girls in bed(like while resting) would comment how warm I was.


Now, I try to sleep warm, literally feet and hands hot, im uncomfortable no matter how much I try to tolerate it. I take my temp convinced im at 98+....just kidding 97.0-.2. It sucks. I wake up - 97.4 at the highest...

Calories, sugar, sat fats good, sodium and all peat things great. Even when im hot as hell im not even actually warm - what the hell is this sensation and my situation?

 

[churchmouth]

Yes I often feel like I am overheating but my oral temperature is close to 36C. Low set-point apparently..

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Do you not ever wake up in the middle of the night super sweaty? I seem to suffer from this if I go to bed with enough blankets to feel warm.

No, not ever, not even when I slept in a jacket and cap, because all I am doing is getting my sleep temperature up to normal. My brain knows the right set-point for this, but can't achieve the temperature on its own due to lack of thyroid hormones. That is why I don't feel overheated. However, since using the red light I can sleep with less clothes on and wake up feeling equally good, so I managed to increase them somewhat I think.

As long as you have subnormal thyroid output your sleep temperature will be too low. I tend to wake up with <36°c and 36.3°c should be the normal waking temperature according to Steve. As long as the thyroid isn't heating you up adequately overnight, you have to compensate with extra clothing unless you want to wake up in poor function. Well, at least that's my situation.

 

[cyclops]

No, not ever, not even when I slept in a jacket and cap, because all I am doing is getting my sleep temperature up to normal. My brain knows the right set-point for this, but can't achieve the temperature on its own due to lack of thyroid hormones. That is why I don't feel overheated. However, since using the red light I can sleep with less clothes on and wake up feeling equally good, so I managed to increase them somewhat I think.

As long as you have subnormal thyroid output your sleep temperature will be too low. I tend to wake up with <36°c and 36.3°c should be the normal waking temperature according to Steve. As long as the thyroid isn't heating you up adequately overnight, you have to compensate with extra clothing unless you want to wake up in poor function. Well, at least that's my situation.

So it seems wearing the clothing at night is really just a band-aid for poor thyroid function. If you were able to get your thyroid working better and temps up you wouldn't need the clothes.

Sorry nothing else has really worked for you. I hope find something that does.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

So it seems wearing the clothing at night is really just a band-aid for poor thyroid function. If you were able to get your thyroid working better and temps up you wouldn't need the clothes.

Sorry nothing else has really worked for you. I hope find something that does.

For someone whose brain set-points are otherwise correct, yes, that is exactly what it is. It still beats feeling shitty all the time. Band-aids have their place and time as well, they help you cope until you get to the root of the problem.

However as I mentioned, a 5 day session of red light has enabled me to wear less clothing overnight while maintaining the same level of well-being. I figure with enough of these sessions, I can restore my thyroid function enough to be able to sleep in light sleep-wear like I used to, even during winter, and maintain a normal sleep temperature.

 

[cyclops]

However as I mentioned, a 5 day session of red light has enabled me to wear less clothing overnight while maintaining the same level of well-being. I figure with enough of these sessions, I can restore my thyroid function enough to be able to sleep in light sleep-wear like I used to, even during winter, and maintain a normal sleep temperature.

Awesome, hope it works for you. Where do you live btw? I'm imagining somewhere cold? It be nice if you could live in a warm place with lots of sun, sounds like that would be great for you. Ive heard thats usually the first thing Peat recommends.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Awesome, hope it works for you. Where do you live btw? I'm imagining somewhere cold? It be nice if you could live in a warm place with lots of sun, sounds like that would be great for you. Ive heard thats usually the first thing Peat recommends.

Central Europe. It's winter, so it's as cold as anywhere, really. We get more than enough sun during the summer luckily.