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haidut

haidut

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Understood.

My intention is to use a GR antagonist to inhibit Bile acid reabsorption via ASBT/slc10a2.
Could 6-progesterone accomplish that?
If no, what substance may be a better bet?

Question:
Does 6-ketoprogesterone retain normal form Progesterone's cyp-inducing effects as a PXR agonist?

Not much is known about these possible effects. There have been very few studies on 6-keto and so far the only indication is that it has anticatabolic effect on muscles. Any other effects are speculative at this point.
 

stevrd

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@haidut I think this has already been discussed on this thread but does 6keto-p4 have any inhibitory effect on testosterone production?
 

stevrd

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Further update.
After using it for a few weeks I can say that this is one of the strongest anti-stress supplements I have ever taken!

Muscle strength and gain is through the roof from very little exercise.

After a very stressful day taking 10mg before bed and the next day I really notice the effects.

For me if I use it daily I think the effect is too powerful and I get joint pain. I would recommend people start with a small dose ( 1-2mg) and build up and experiment to see what is right for you.

All and all amazing supplement.

@Soren, are you still noticing strength/muscle gain benefits? It would be cool if one could get many of the benefits of AAS without the negative side effects, even if it's much milder for size/strength. It would be healthier in the long run with no need for ancillaries or PCT. Seems too good to be true, though.
 

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Does Idealab offer faster shipping options such as DHL/UPS if a customer paid for the whole shipping cost?
 
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@haidut I think this has already been discussed on this thread but does 6keto-p4 have any inhibitory effect on testosterone production?

Not to my knowledge, it should actually stimulate it. Anything that blocks cortisol usually allows for proper androgen synthesis to resume. Estrogen and cortisol suppress gonadal function.
 

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Not to my knowledge, it should actually stimulate it. Anything that blocks cortisol usually allows for proper androgen synthesis to resume. Estrogen and cortisol suppress gonadal function.
@benaoao Haidut this is very interesting. Don't know how I missed it until now, but I have been looking for the best way to come off/transition from trt in the form of 80 mgs/week testosterone cypionate with intermittent arimedex at about .1-.25 mgs eod. I don't like the effects it has on thymus, raising e2, tanking progesterone, pregnenolone, etc. Could this possibly be used instead of the typical hcg protocol or even a cold turkey switch? This looks like it could be great to prevent sarcopenia long term also. Any thoughts you guys might have are appreciated. This forum is a treasure for sure.
 

stevrd

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@benaoao Haidut this is very interesting. Don't know how I missed it until now, but I have been looking for the best way to come off/transition from trt in the form of 80 mgs/week testosterone cypionate with intermittent arimedex at about .1-.25 mgs eod. I don't like the effects it has on thymus, raising e2, tanking progesterone, pregnenolone, etc. Could this possibly be used instead of the typical hcg protocol or even a cold turkey switch? This looks like it could be great to prevent sarcopenia long term also. Any thoughts you guys might have are appreciated. This forum is a treasure for sure.
@Texon how old are you? Age plays a big role for ability to come off trt and restore hpta. I dont think pregnenolone and progesterone are good long term for Male HRT. Most men trying it are not reporting good results. If you search enough on this forum you will find this to be true. If you truly want to come off a good thing to do is some hcg therapy for a few months and if not successful with that try 1 shot of triptorelin at 100mcg.

Supplementing preg or prog has its place but it's not to be confused with the effects of trt. And it's not a long term solution.
 

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@Texon how old are you? Age plays a big role for ability to come off trt and restore hpta. I dont think pregnenolone and progesterone are good long term for Male HRT. Most men trying it are not reporting good results. If you search enough on this forum you will find this to be true. If you truly want to come off a good thing to do is some hcg therapy for a few months and if not successful with that try 1 shot of triptorelin at 100mcg.

Supplementing preg or prog has its place but it's not to be confused with the effects of trt. And it's not a long term solution.
@haidut Stevrd, I am 67, but still lean and in great shape overall. I thought the 6 keto might cause normalization of all of it but would not be seeking to actually supplement directly with pregnenolone or progesterone. My labs are all good in every way, but total and free T were both above ranges and sensitive E2 at 43 while @ 50 mgs Tcyp e4d. So, I recently cut the dose to 40 mgs e3d to hopefully bring things down a bit. Was also not taking adex at all prior to the recent labs. I would rather have e2 below 25. I am also thinking of some Cytoflavin to hopefully restore mitochondria that have taken a hit due to recent illness which is not chronic. Btw Happy Thanksgiving guys.
 

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@haidut Stevrd, I am 67, but still lean and in great shape overall. I thought the 6 keto might cause normalization of all of it but would not be seeking to actually supplement directly with pregnenolone or progesterone. My labs are all good in every way, but total and free T were both above ranges and sensitive E2 at 43 while @ 50 mgs Tcyp e4d. So, I recently cut the dose to 40 mgs e3d to hopefully bring things down a bit. Was also not taking adex at all prior to the recent labs. I would rather have e2 below 25. I am also thinking of some Cytoflavin to hopefully restore mitochondria that have taken a hit due to recent illness which is not chronic. Btw Happy Thanksgiving guys.
@Texon if you do try to come off trt and try 6keto p4, I would be very interested in your results. Please post results on here for blood work and subjective feelings as well. Might I suggest trying one variable at a time so you know what is working and what isn't.

I'm not sure if 6 keto p4 will work or not. Its uncharted territory. We need guys like you to try it out so we can find alternatives to trt. You could theoretically also try some cyproheptadine for lowering cortisol and normalizing hormone, but it may have a mild sedating effect that could be undesirable. It's my understanding that 6 keto is not sedating.

Btw dont try to drive e2 really low. Some evidence suggests a healthy ratio of t to e is 18 to 20. Very low e2 can be just as bad as high. Good luck and happy Thanksgiving.
 
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@haidut Stevrd, I am 67, but still lean and in great shape overall. I thought the 6 keto might cause normalization of all of it but would not be seeking to actually supplement directly with pregnenolone or progesterone. My labs are all good in every way, but total and free T were both above ranges and sensitive E2 at 43 while @ 50 mgs Tcyp e4d. So, I recently cut the dose to 40 mgs e3d to hopefully bring things down a bit. Was also not taking adex at all prior to the recent labs. I would rather have e2 below 25. I am also thinking of some Cytoflavin to hopefully restore mitochondria that have taken a hit due to recent illness which is not chronic. Btw Happy Thanksgiving guys.

Thanks, and please share your experience if you come off TRT.
 

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My rat have great benefits from topical Mitolipin, Diamant, Pansterone, Prog-E, Androsterone, Gonadin, Tocovit and Vitamin D. All in low respected doses. Would implementing 6-keto P4 be conflicting? If so what should be replaced? Rat is extremely calm and social. Looks strong, leaner and skin looks great. I honestly feel rat is great as is, but I just recieved a bottle and would like to experiment.
 
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My rat have great benefits from topical Mitolipin, Diamant, Pansterone, Prog-E, Androsterone, Gonadin, Tocovit and Vitamin D. All in low respected doses. Would implementing 6-keto P4 be conflicting? If so what should be replaced? Rat is extremely calm and social. Looks strong, leaner and skin looks great. I honestly feel rat is great as is, but I just recieved a bottle and would like to experiment.

I don't think it would be conflicting but if you are getting benefits from progesterone then probably no need to add 6-keto. The goal of 6-keto was to provide the cortisol-blocking effects of progesterone but without its progestin effects leading to suppressed androgen synthesis and/or reduced androgenic phenotype.
 

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So I switched out 5mg Prog-E with 10mg 6-Keto P4 for 3 days. 1 day rat was very active, hes body seem very light. He seemed to enjoy his space and look at old things with a new eye. He seemed to be in a good mood, like he was on a dosage of Lisuride. Body did not seemed as pumped or full, but whole body seemed much lighter. Surprised how heavy Prog-E made his body, not a bad thing but rat looked more tired and needed more sleep. He seem to enjoy the same effects of 6-Keto P4 on day 2, he was also put under different stressful events. He did not respond to any stressors, he was calm and stable the whole day on both physical and psychological tests. Same on day 3, dosed early and the effects seem to lean out after 7-8 hours. Rat has been under a lot more stress than usual these last days with little sleep, but still happy and active. Switching over to Prog-E again tomorrow to see if body looks much fuller and pumped as I remember. Not sure if perception differs as body seems much lighter. Rat did an expected Pr on certain exercises..
 
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So I switched out 5mg Prog-E with 10mg 6-Keto P4 for 3 days. 1 day rat was very active, hes body seem very light. He seemed to enjoy his space and look at old things with a new eye. He seemed to be in a good mood, like he was on a dosage of Lisuride. Body did not seemed as pumped or full, but whole body seemed much lighter. Surprised how heavy Prog-E made his body, not a bad thing but rat looked more tired and needed more sleep. He seem to enjoy the same effects of 6-Keto P4 on day 2, he was also put under different stressful events. He did not respond to any stressors, he was calm and stable the whole day on both physical and psychological tests. Same on day 3, dosed early and the effects seem to lean out after 7-8 hours. Rat has been under a lot more stress than usual these last days with little sleep, but still happy and active. Switching over to Prog-E again tomorrow to see if body looks much fuller and pumped as I remember. Not sure if perception differs as body seems much lighter. Rat did an expected Pr on certain exercises..

Thanks for the feedback.
So, body looked fuller and more pumped up on Progest-E or 6-keto?
 

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@Soren, are you still noticing strength/muscle gain benefits? It would be cool if one could get many of the benefits of AAS without the negative side effects, even if it's much milder for size/strength. It would be healthier in the long run with no need for ancillaries or PCT. Seems too good to be true, though.

Sorry I never responded to this. I have not used it as much recently because I have been away traveling and have not had access to it. Although when I was taking it the strength gains were noticeable. I am probably going to take some more again soon to coincide with a new exercise program. I have been lifting and exercising seriously for about 13 years so I have quite a bit of experience. Nothing crazy or anything but I have dead-lifted up too 520lbs. I would say it definitely helped with recovery from exercise.

I would say though that one should be cautious and start out slow. I maybe wrong in this assessment but cortisol I think can mask a lot of minor aches and pains and if it goes to low they can tend to flare up. I for example had some aches in my teeth and muscles when taking too much of this. But overall I felt significantly less stressed
 

Anders86

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Thanks for the feedback.
So, body looked fuller and more pumped up on Progest-E or 6-keto?

Both gives good pumps. When I saw rat experienced such good effects I wanted to experiment with taking all supplements topical(Energin,Aspirin,MB etc.). I also upped the diet in fats as metabolism seem to increase. But then rat seem flat, slow and apathetic, revealing a possible "diseased" liver. A couple days of oral Aspirin, Energin, Cardenosine, Lapodin and a lot of orange juice and skim milk rat is energetic and full again. Responding great to both Progest-E and 6-Keto, but Progest E is more sedating
 
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Would you suggest using 6-keto with pansterone rather than andro then?

I would not say "rather than" but either or, depending on what works best for the person. DHEA could be problematic for people with high estrogen so in that case combining with androsterone could be better.
 

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