5α-DHP - Liquid 5α-Dihydroprogesterone For Lab/R&D

[haidut]

can you please point out differences between 5α-DHP and 6 ketop4
how they may be used together or if that would be redundant
and best use for each
thanks

They are very different products. The 5a-DHP is more of a mental supplement due to its conversion into allopregnanolone. The 6-keto P4 is supposed to be much more focused on blocking cortisol's effects and thus decreasing tissue catabolism. Allopegnanolone also decreases cortisol synthesis but I don't know of any studies that show this resulting in anti-catabolic effects on muscle, like 6-keto P4 was shown to do.

 

[member 6316]

my review: been taking it for over a week now, 7mg a day, unfourtunaly it doesen't work, no effect at all, feel like im taking Nothing. I attribute that to the severe bad health condition i am currently in that is somehow stopping it from working but i have no proof of that.

 

[haidut]

my review: been taking it for over a week now, 7mg a day, unfourtunaly it doesen't work, no effect at all, feel like im taking Nothing. I attribute that to the severe bad health condition i am currently in that is somehow stopping it from working but i have no proof of that.

Have you done any blood tests? It would be interesting to see if there is any imbalance in cortisol, prolactin, etc and if this progestin is changing it in any way.

 

[MCurtone]

Hey everyone and @haidut

I posted a few weeks ago about how lethargic I was feeling. Turns out the cause was incredibly simple and had nothing to do with 5aDHP. It was because I was not getting enough salt/electrolytes while doing a carnivore/keto diet. What a rookie mistake.

Anyways, upon fixing that, my energy levels increased and so did my mental clarity. I haven't felt this good in years. I haven't been using the 5aDHP regularly but will begin using it again shortly. I think the positive effects I had from it has lasted and carried through cognitively. I'll keep you all updated in the next few weeks as I add it back into my supplement routine.

 

[lampofred]

Not trying to make any statements about the product itself, but for what it's worth, just wanted to mention that Peat in the past has referenced a study saying that the more estrogen you have, the more of your progesterone goes down the 5- pathway instead of the 3- or 20- pathways. Not sure what that means. Maybe the 5- is an "emergency" metabolite that is worse for the body in the long-run compared to the 3- or 20- metabolites but is necessary in the short-run to counteract estrogen. Again, not criticizing the quality of the product, and I know there is already a breast cancer risk disclaimer, but I just wanted to mention this in case anyone was thinking of using this long-term.

I recently bought this, but I'm not going to use it anymore because of the above and because of the association with cell proliferation.

 

[haidut]

Hey everyone and @haidut

I posted a few weeks ago about how lethargic I was feeling. Turns out the cause was incredibly simple and had nothing to do with 5aDHP. It was because I was not getting enough salt/electrolytes while doing a carnivore/keto diet. What a rookie mistake.

Anyways, upon fixing that, my energy levels increased and so did my mental clarity. I haven't felt this good in years. I haven't been using the 5aDHP regularly but will begin using it again shortly. I think the positive effects I had from it has lasted and carried through cognitively. I'll keep you all updated in the next few weeks as I add it back into my supplement routine.

Thanks for the update. When you use it again please keep us posted.

 

[haidut]

Not trying to make any statements about the product itself, but for what it's worth, just wanted to mention that Peat in the past has referenced a study saying that the more estrogen you have, the more of your progesterone goes down the 5- pathway instead of the 3- or 20- pathways. Not sure what that means. Maybe the 5- is an "emergency" metabolite that is worse for the body in the long-run compared to the 3- or 20- metabolites but is necessary in the short-run to counteract estrogen. Again, not criticizing the quality of the product, and I know there is already a breast cancer risk disclaimer, but I just wanted to mention this in case anyone was thinking of using this long-term.

I recently bought this, but I'm not going to use it anymore because of the above and because of the association with cell proliferation.

I think the 5-AR pathway increases when estrogen is elevated because in general 5-AR derived steroids have anti-estrogen and anti-cortisol effects. Btw, 5a-DHP levels also increase in pregnancy, so it would be interesting to find out why but I am not aware of any studies that looked at it. Most of 5a-DHP converts to allopregnanolone rather quickly, so chronic elevations of 5a-DHP are probably only likely in people with lower 3a-HSD activity due to some pathology. I have not seen studies on that though, except the elevations of 5a-DHP in pregnancy, which has not been explained so far.

 

[alywest]

I think the 5-AR pathway increases when estrogen is elevated because in general 5-AR derived steroids have anti-estrogen and anti-cortisol effects. Btw, 5a-DHP levels also increase in pregnancy, so it would be interesting to find out why but I am not aware of any studies that looked at it. Most of 5a-DHP converts to allopregnanolone rather quickly, so chronic elevations of 5a-DHP are probably only likely in people with lower 3a-HSD activity due to some pathology. I have not seen studies on that though, except the elevations of 5a-DHP in pregnancy, which has not been explained so far.

When it comes to people with lower 3a-HSD activity, as you know, low doses of SSRI (pre serotonin reuptake inhibition levels) are known to help the conversion of 5a-DHP to allopregnanolone. As Ray Peat has mentioned, lowered amounts of cholesterol would make this an "inappropriate" way to increase allo. So my question to you is, have you any ideas as to what besides the low dose fluoxetine type drugs might assist in the conversion of 5a-DHP for those who have pathologically low levels of 3a-HSD? I have been experimenting with 6mg zoloft (~equivalent to 2mg fluoxetine) with good results. I have accidentally taken too much (approx. 12 mg) and felt my jaw tightening and clenching, letting me know I had achieved "serotonin reuptake inhibition"--definitely not good! It's a bit questionable and I hate taking anything by the a-hole pharmaceuticals. However, my situation is dire as I cannot convert progesterone to allopregnan. and I struggle with severe PMS (aka PMDD) as well as PTSD, which I suspect are related as they both seem to stem from the deficiency in the enzyme 3a-HSD.

 

[haidut]

When it comes to people with lower 3a-HSD activity, as you know, low doses of SSRI (pre serotonin reuptake inhibition levels) are known to help the conversion of 5a-DHP to allopregnanolone. As Ray Peat has mentioned, lowered amounts of cholesterol would make this an "inappropriate" way to increase allo. So my question to you is, have you any ideas as to what besides the low dose fluoxetine type drugs might assist in the conversion of 5a-DHP for those who have pathologically low levels of 3a-HSD? I have been experimenting with 6mg zoloft (~equivalent to 2mg fluoxetine) with good results. I have accidentally taken too much (approx. 12 mg) and felt my jaw tightening and clenching, letting me know I had achieved "serotonin reuptake inhibition"--definitely not good! It's a bit questionable and I hate taking anything by the a-hole pharmaceuticals. However, my situation is dire as I cannot convert progesterone to allopregnan. and I struggle with severe PMS (aka PMDD) as well as PTSD, which I suspect are related as they both seem to stem from the deficiency in the enzyme 3a-HSD.

In addition to SSRI, some anti-serotonin chemicals help increase 3a-HSD too. Mirtazapine is one of them.
Influence of mirtazapine on plasma concentrations of neuroactive steroids in major depression and on 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity. - PubMed - NCBI

On the dietary side, glycine "receptor" agonists and GABA agonists are known to also strongly increase 3a-HSD activity and thus ALLO synthesis. So, glycine/gelatin and maybe oral GABA could be an OTC alternatives to mirtazapine.
Glycine Strongly Upregulates 5-alpha Reductase (5-ar) Activity
Comparative Analysis of Gelsemine and Gelsemium sempervirens Activity on Neurosteroid Allopregnanolone Formation in the Spinal Cord and Limbic System

 

[alywest]

In addition to SSRI, some anti-serotonin chemicals help increase 3a-HSD too. Mirtazapine is one of them.
Influence of mirtazapine on plasma concentrations of neuroactive steroids in major depression and on 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity. - PubMed - NCBI

On the dietary side, glycine "receptor" agonists and GABA agonists are known to also strongly increase 3a-HSD activity and thus ALLO synthesis. So, glycine/gelatin and maybe oral GABA could be an OTC alternatives to mirtazapine.
Glycine Strongly Upregulates 5-alpha Reductase (5-ar) Activity
Comparative Analysis of Gelsemine and Gelsemium sempervirens Activity on Neurosteroid Allopregnanolone Formation in the Spinal Cord and Limbic System

Thanks, Haidut, your wealth of knowledge is incredible. Also, the supplements! Based on a study I found regarding targeted treatment for PTSD, I propose the following supplements/meds:

PEA (not phenylethylamine)
Mirtazipine
5a-DHP
DeFibron (due to its effect on peroxisome proliferator‐activated receptors aka PPARs)
Inositol (for reduction of 5HT2A receptor function)

(see study Biomarkers for PTSD at the Interface of the Endocannabinoid and Neurosteroid Axis )

 

[haidut]

Thanks, Haidut, your wealth of knowledge is incredible. Also, the supplements! Based on a study I found regarding targeted treatment for PTSD, I propose the following supplements/meds:

PEA (not phenylethylamine)
Mirtazipine
5a-DHP
DeFibron (due to its effect on peroxisome proliferator‐activated receptors aka PPARs)
Inositol (for reduction of 5HT2A receptor function)

(see study Biomarkers for PTSD at the Interface of the Endocannabinoid and Neurosteroid Axis )

In addition to the ones you mentioned, pregnenolone may also help. It is has shown promise in human trials for PTSD. Google "pregnenolone PTSD" for more info.

 

[alywest]

In addition to the ones you mentioned, pregnenolone may also help. It is has shown promise in human trials for PTSD. Google "pregnenolone PTSD" for more info.

Ok cool, that makes sense since pregnenolone is required to make progesterone - 5aDHP - allopregnanolone. It might be important to supplement that so that there are plenty of building blocks available for the conversion. Also a lot of cholesterol is good, and I'm wondering if the DeFibron helps in that regard. I seem to remember reading that it helps increase HDL? Or perhaps that was just PPARs in general.

 

[haidut]

Ok cool, that makes sense since pregnenolone is required to make progesterone - 5aDHP - allopregnanolone. It might be important to supplement that so that there are plenty of building blocks available for the conversion. Also a lot of cholesterol is good, and I'm wondering if the DeFibron helps in that regard. I seem to remember reading that it helps increase HDL? Or perhaps that was just PPARs in general.

Actually, pregnenolone's main benefit in this case is probably the inhibition of CRH and thus the cortisol cascade that is at the core of PTSD.
Pregnenolone Is The Most Potent Inhibitor Of The Stress Signal (CRH)
High Cortisol / Testosterone Ratio As A Likely Cause Of PTSD

 

[am00]

Nice man. Yeah, the doses for Haidut talks about is 500mg of niacinamide and 325mg-500mg of aspirin and 200mg of caffeine. You could also try forskolin too which I personally tried and posted some studies a while back on how it can boost cyclic amp along with stimulating T.

Genetics def do play a role. When I was in highschool and early college I had all the signs of high DHT but I never knew about DHT back them much but it all makes sense now. I was always super strong despite my size.

I never been over 10% BF in my life. If I didn't work out regularly and just stayed on fin I think I would turn into a female lmao. I think what kept me somewhat stable on fin was the weight lifting that stimulated T and DHT and drinking loads of booze which boosted allopreg. If I wasn't doing those things while on fin the sides would prob be way way worse.

Does solban work over abs haha? Maybe I will try it.

Hi, for how long did you take forskolin and did you interrupt taking it?

 

[aquaman]

Actually, pregnenolone's main benefit in this case is probably the inhibition of CRH and thus the cortisol cascade that is at the core of PTSD.
Pregnenolone Is The Most Potent Inhibitor Of The Stress Signal (CRH)
High Cortisol / Testosterone Ratio As A Likely Cause Of PTSD

Can attest to Preg having an amazing effect. Not sure what the pathway is, but it’s working for me unlike basically any other supplement which tend to have zero effect. Energy and mood hugely improved last 2 weeks since starting 70mg of oral Pregnenolone from health natura

 

[RobertJM]

Can attest to Preg having an amazing effect. Not sure what the pathway is, but it’s working for me unlike basically any other supplement which tend to have zero effect. Energy and mood hugely improved last 2 weeks since starting 70mg of oral Pregnenolone from health natura

It sounds like a light being switched. I’ve tried DHEA by itself now and just get completely negative effects, so I know that the positive effects that I got from pansterone were perhaps mostly down to the preg. With panesterone it would make me quite productive, which is something that I need a lot of help with.

I can’t wait to try my preg when it arrives.

 

[aquaman]

It sounds like a light being switched. I’ve tried DHEA by itself now and just get completely negative effects, so I know that the positive effects that I got from pansterone were perhaps mostly down to the preg. With panesterone it would make me quite productive, which is something that I need a lot of help with.

I can’t wait to try my preg when it arrives.

I also used pansterone quite a lot. Not the same effect.

Also not sure if it’s quantity related too (ie 70mg) or the oral route, or even the powder since I took Pansterone orally too

 

[am00]

Did you two been on ssris?

 

[Frankdee20]

Does this shut down other 5 alpha pathways ?

 

[haidut]

Does this shut down other 5 alpha pathways ?

I don't know of any studies on this with 5a-DHP but studies with its direct metabolite allopregnanolone did not find such effects.