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I do my best not to count calories.
There is a study that counting calories actually increases weight gain more than not counting them.
So I just try to eat conservative portions in 15 minutes because of the full signal to the brain.
But I do count the proteins and SFA:PUFA ratio per meal. And the sugar in drinks is portioned by taste.
 

Steve

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Nov 9, 2016
Messages
444
Are the people eating 4,000 to 5,000 very active or very young?
I'm 47, 6'1'', 190 lbs, hour of exercise every day......or more.
I maintain my non-impressive body at 3,000 calories or slightly lower.
 

Sonya Carbone

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Apr 27, 2018
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Are the people eating 4,000 to 5,000 very active or very young?
I'm 47, 6'1'', 190 lbs, hour of exercise every day......or more.
I maintain my non-impressive body at 3,000 calories or slightly lower.

Hi Steve,

I believe it has to do with outcomes and goals. For a strict bodybuilder 4-5K might be needed for muscle growth during the bulking phase with a reduction in calories during the shredding phase. For the average Joe it would be fine on 3K of calories if you are not in the gym pumping iron for 2 hours a day.

I'm a 6ft, 41yo female with weight unknown (read: not accurate enough picture to weigh myself due to body scans being more accurate) and I eat 2-3K on my own without batting an eyelid. If I was to seriously build muscle then 3-4K might be required for me so 4-5K is not that much of a stretch.
 

Dino D

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how to eat so much calories without getting super fat... i'm on 2-3000, and i increase weigt whenever i start eating more... i just dont get that part... if i dont move to much and if im sedentery and eat 2000 calories, i could lose weigt or get fitter with just a bit more weight by just eatin 4000 calories... thats why people are fat and sick, id tthey sedentery and eat to much... i dont know one real person (only here on the internet) that lost weigt by incereasing calories... ps. i know its not a weigt loss thread but thats an often thesis here... peace
 

Steve

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Nov 9, 2016
Messages
444
how to eat so much calories without getting super fat... i'm on 2-3000, and i increase weigt whenever i start eating more... i just dont get that part... if i dont move to much and if im sedentery and eat 2000 calories, i could lose weigt or get fitter with just a bit more weight by just eatin 4000 calories... thats why people are fat and sick, id tthey sedentery and eat to much... i dont know one real person (only here on the internet) that lost weigt by incereasing calories... ps. i know its not a weigt loss thread but thats an often thesis here... peace
This eating more to lose fat thing bewilders me too. I'm almost 50 & I can't remember ever knowing anyone who lost fat by eating more.
 

Dino D

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This eating more to lose fat thing bewilders me too. I'm almost 50 & I can't remember ever knowing anyone who lost fat by eating more.
Exactly, this is the truth for me and for everyone around me since my childhood until now... with the same activity you can with simple diet tweak your metabolism, for 500 calories maybe, but i cant belive that someone who eats 2000 calories and has a bit more weight can get lean or stay the sam if he goes on 5000 calories... not gradualy or any other way... evan the guy that do pro sport and that i know dont claim that, if they eat more and eat less they gain... i know some pro bodybuilders and they report a increase in basal metabolism for 1000 or more calories, but they have so much muscle mass, roids and work out super hard... i dont know... but, look at my profil picture, I'm open and i am questioning...
 

Cirion

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I eat a ton of food (often 5000+) and certainly gaining a ton of weight but that's because I'm finally turning off the stress hormones after literally 3 decades of chronic stress. I definitely do plan to write a book if and when I do finally start to recover (both my health and my weight). I eat this much because if I eat any less, my body temp and stress goes back through the roof again, so it's mandatory for me. I am easily stressed so I have to really do what I can to get back to good health. (31 male and sedentary). Eating this much I can usually get my waking temperatures to 98+F (Still trying to get to perfect 98.6F on waking, a work in progress - Almost did it once or twice) and can usually keep my temperature after waking at 98.6F+ at all times. Weight does not equal health. I could stop gaining or possibly lose if I dropped calories, but then immediately my temps drop to 97s or even 96s. This culture has an unhealthy obsession with being "lean" at all costs even your health. Actually the first time on RP I did stop gaining weight on 5000+ calories. I'm gaining this weight now precisely because I dropped calories halfway into it in an attempt to lose weight, a huge mistake. Gaining weight from increased food is not because of the increased calories itself but because of all the abuse you do to your body before the increased food as a self defense mechanism thinking another famine or stressor is coming (AKA, chronic dieting / exercising) so if you're gaining weight from increased calories its my opinion now that your body "needs" that extra weight, and resisting it is gonna prevent healing. It is not normal to gain weight, true, like I say its a self defense mechanism. An ideal reality is that no one should ever diet once in their lifetime. Now that I know what I know about dieting, I can not in good conscious recommend ANYONE to diet ever, I literally can't think of one good reason, not even if you weigh 600+ lbs. Of course, the 600+ lb person should eat wholesome foods which probably will result in weight loss but I can't recommend he count calories. If people knew they were catabolizing vital organs/cells, their bone, possibly even some brain mass, I think they'd think twice about cutting calories. To help lose weight, the stress should be removed (toxic environment), decreasing calories is literally the opposite one should do because that ADDS stress (plenty of studies prove that). As some mentioned working out hard can give the illusion of improved metabolism but most of us who are not roided out can attest to the fact that you can have improved calorie burn but actually a depressed metabolism as proven with depressed hormones and depressed body temp. Sounds backwards but its true, it happened to me when I worked out too hard. Some would argue a temporary stressor is required to cut the weight but I disagree vehemently. See what happens is once you finally stop dieting, you now have depressed hormones and hormones can take months or even years to recover, so unless you maintain a low caloric intake, you will all but guaranteed gain all the weight and more especially once you get to be age 30-40+. Just talk to any chronic dieter, none of them can keep the weight off (including myself). The body is smart though and eventually once you heal you may find yourself needing less calories, at which point you will lose weight in a healthy manner. I should clarify that I'm against forced calorie deprivation. If your body decides it needs less calories finally then you should honor that.

As a final closing note to really throw some peoples' viewpoints of metabolism upside down: Increased calorie burn actually usually means LOW METABOLISM most of the time. Yes, I said it. RP verifies my claims though, he said once he got on thyroid he was able to reduce his calorie intake by half. High metabolism = CALORIE EFFICIENCY. I have to eat 5000 calorie because my metabolism is LOW actually.

The other day was posting on some guys' thread where his body temp is barely above 95F upon waking, he eats 6000+ calories a day. You'd think that is a high metabolism because of his intake and how intense he works out and whatnot, but that's not the case. You see this in a lot of pro "athletes" though.
 
Last edited:

TeaRex14

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Messages
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Somewhere between 2,800 and 3,000 calories on most days. Back when I was lifting pretty regularly I ate closer to 4,000, and had good gains, but I couldn't do it on sugar by itself I needed some starch.
 

RayPeatFan777

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Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
96
I eat a ton of food (often 5000+) and certainly gaining a ton of weight but that's because I'm finally turning off the stress hormones after literally 3 decades of chronic stress. I definitely do plan to write a book if and when I do finally start to recover (both my health and my weight). I eat this much because if I eat any less, my body temp and stress goes back through the roof again, so it's mandatory for me. I am easily stressed so I have to really do what I can to get back to good health. (31 male and sedentary). Eating this much I can usually get my waking temperatures to 98+F (Still trying to get to perfect 98.6F on waking, a work in progress - Almost did it once or twice) and can usually keep my temperature after waking at 98.6F+ at all times. Weight does not equal health. I could stop gaining or possibly lose if I dropped calories, but then immediately my temps drop to 97s or even 96s. This culture has an unhealthy obsession with being "lean" at all costs even your health. Actually the first time on RP I did stop gaining weight on 5000+ calories. I'm gaining this weight now precisely because I dropped calories halfway into it in an attempt to lose weight, a huge mistake. Gaining weight from increased food is not because of the increased calories itself but because of all the abuse you do to your body before the increased food as a self defense mechanism thinking another famine or stressor is coming (AKA, chronic dieting / exercising) so if you're gaining weight from increased calories its my opinion now that your body "needs" that extra weight, and resisting it is gonna prevent healing. It is not normal to gain weight, true, like I say its a self defense mechanism. An ideal reality is that no one should ever diet once in their lifetime. Now that I know what I know about dieting, I can not in good conscious recommend ANYONE to diet ever, I literally can't think of one good reason, not even if you weigh 600+ lbs. Of course, the 600+ lb person should eat wholesome foods which probably will result in weight loss but I can't recommend he count calories. If people knew they were catabolizing vital organs/cells, their bone, possibly even some brain mass, I think they'd think twice about cutting calories. To help lose weight, the stress should be removed (toxic environment), decreasing calories is literally the opposite one should do because that ADDS stress (plenty of studies prove that). As some mentioned working out hard can give the illusion of improved metabolism but most of us who are not roided out can attest to the fact that you can have improved calorie burn but actually a depressed metabolism as proven with depressed hormones and depressed body temp. Sounds backwards but its true, it happened to me when I worked out too hard. Some would argue a temporary stressor is required to cut the weight but I disagree vehemently. See what happens is once you finally stop dieting, you now have depressed hormones and hormones can take months or even years to recover, so unless you maintain a low caloric intake, you will all but guaranteed gain all the weight and more especially once you get to be age 30-40+. Just talk to any chronic dieter, none of them can keep the weight off (including myself). The body is smart though and eventually once you heal you may find yourself needing less calories, at which point you will lose weight in a healthy manner. I should clarify that I'm against forced calorie deprivation. If your body decides it needs less calories finally then you should honor that.

As a final closing note to really throw some peoples' viewpoints of metabolism upside down: Increased calorie burn actually usually means LOW METABOLISM most of the time. Yes, I said it. RP verifies my claims though, he said once he got on thyroid he was able to reduce his calorie intake by half. High metabolism = CALORIE EFFICIENCY. I have to eat 5000 calorie because my metabolism is LOW actually.

The other day was posting on some guys' thread where his body temp is barely above 95F upon waking, he eats 6000+ calories a day. You'd think that is a high metabolism because of his intake and how intense he works out and whatnot, but that's not the case. You see this in a lot of pro "athletes" though.
What are you eating to hit those calorie totals?
 
Last edited:

nomoreketones

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From my understanding, needing a huge amount of calories to keeps temps up is bad not good.

If you have a healthy metabolism then you will produce 38 ATP molecules per molecule of glucose. If your metabolism is not good then much of your energy will be from anerobic glycolysis which yields 2 ATP molecules per molecule of glucose. From this logic wouldn't you expect someone to keep their temps up with fewer calories if he/she had a healthy metabolism that relies more on cellular respiration and less on anaerobic glycolysis? I don't know how much fat contributes to keeping temps up though.
 
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I think 3000 or 4000 kcals per day for a male is pretty normal. I always eat a little more than 3000 calories per day. Much more than that probably means that the metabolism is broken somewhere. Also, there is a difference to be made bwtween being stuck in glycolysis, which would mean bad metabolism, and uncoupled metabolism, which is a desirable situation. The main difference between these states is that, if you're stuck in glycolysis, the amount of CO2 you'll produce will be lower. Uncoupled respiration doesn't produce ATP, but heat and CO2. So excessive uncoupling will be bad because it will not allow cells to get their needed amount of ATP. But moderate uncoupling, as long as you eat enough calories, will increase CO2 levels, which has many benefits for the cells. So burning through a lot of calories everyday can be good if the metabolism is good.
 

Fractality

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Jan 23, 2016
Messages
772
That's what I've always wondered about. It seems to be a contradiction, how can both of the below be true?

-A healthy metabolism is one that requires a relatively higher amount of calories
-A health metabolism means that no calories are wasted, and per calorie use is more efficient

I suppose it depends on whether the healthy metabolism with higher calorie intake leads to weight gain.
 

nomoreketones

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I knew that Ray Peat had addressed this before. I couldn't find the post where it was mentioned but if did some digging and finally found it:
Aerobic Respiration Vs Calorie Intake

Here is the quote by Ray Peat originally found by Tara and Marteagal if you don't want to click on the link:
"About your high metabolic rate and high temperature: In my teens and twenties, I needed about 8000 calories per day when I was physically active, about 4000 to 5000 when I was sedentary, but after I took thyroid, I needed only about half as many calories. Thyroid is the basic regulator of blood glucose, and it causes it to be fully oxidized for energy, so that it produces ATP efficiently, on relatively few calories. If blood glucose falls, because it's being used very quickly, the body responds with stress hormones, including glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol." RP
 
Joined
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Messages
1,790
That's what I've always wondered about. It seems to be a contradiction, how can both of the below be true?

-A healthy metabolism is one that requires a relatively higher amount of calories
-A health metabolism means that no calories are wasted, and per calorie use is more efficient

I suppose it depends on whether the healthy metabolism with higher calorie intake leads to weight gain.
I think both are true. You both get more out of the calories that you ingest( since you will not rely on glycolysis so much) and, not only will the calories that you ingest be utilized more efficiently, but you will have increased uncoupling, which means you can eat extra calories and convert those to CO2. The amount of calories "wasted" in uncoupled metabolism is probably much smaller than the amount of calories that would be really wasted if a person's metabolism was stuck in glycolysis, and the uncoupling can probably be adjusted to the needs of the cells( if ATP is low, uncoupling will decrease; if ATP is sufficient, uncoupling will increase), but with glycolysis, there isn't such a mechanism( you will waste carbs whether there is sufficient energy or not). This is what I think happens, anyway.
 

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