Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[postman]

So I am starting to think it all goes back to excess estrogen honestly. I posted earlier I am doing a Vegan experiment. From what I have now learned, ALL dairy and ALL meats are the number ONE cause of estrogen dominance in men in particular. For women it's up for debate if that's meat/dairy or if it's things like the pill. Estrogen is strongly inflammatory and can easily cause all sorts of food sensitivities/allergies/auto immune conditions etc etc... I find it interesting that Peat recommends milk when it is the #1 source of estrogen in our diet. Skim milk may be slightly less bad I guess since a lot of the estrogens will be in the fat. This probably helps explain why so many people can not tolerate milk fat. Ice cream just makes me feel gross and many other people can attest to this fact.

Dr. Morse and Ehret and others would say all protein is the problem, more accurately, I think it is mostly dairy and meat that are the problem, though inherently once you give those up your protein will definitely be a lot lower.

When you give up dairy you're also giving up the excessive estrogen hormones that are contained in dairy. And it doesn't even matter if it is grass fed. Beef, butter, cheese, milk, yogurt... all of it loaded with estrogens, grain fed or grass fed. Apparently a lot of dairy is sold from PREGNANT animals, which adds insult to injury. Virtually all fitness "experts" will say grass-fed is safer than grain-fed... well apparently this isn't the case. BTW selling milk from pregnant cows is illegal in most other countries but not here apparently...

@charlie I am now starting to see the light and think you were right on protein. Lol. See, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.

Dairy has way more progesterone than estrogen so it wont cause "estrogen dominance". It's completely anti-androgenic though, it will dump your testosterone levels. I think some meats are very estrogenic because of how it's produced, chicken comes to mind. But in general meat itself doesn't seem estrogenic at all. I don't think selling milk from pregnant cows is illegal anywhere, i wish it was labeled though, milk from pregnant cows have way way way higher hormone levels than other milk.

 

[Vinero]

What was the problem before you found Peat? Was it still vitamin A?

Yes. I have had problems with vitamin A toxicity since I was a child. I have had mild eczema even in childhood. Eczema is an obvious symptoms of vitamin A toxicity. I ate all kinds of processed foods when I was a child. In highschool when I was around 16-17 years old it became a lot worse when I was eating lots of vegetables like broccoli, carrots and oranges. I was trying out a vegetarian diet at that time. When I was 18 I joined the gym and also found out about Ray Peat and read some of his articles on PUFA. That made sense to me so I cut out all PUFAs and basically ate a bodybuilder type diet (chicken, rice, potatoes, beef). This was the only time in my life when all of my eczema and asthmatic symptoms were totally gone. This was the best time of my life, both health-wise and happiness-wise. I actually had a great body around that age 19-20, very muscular and fit. I have become skinny over the years eating a Ray Peat diet, since I don't really workout anymore. It's hard to workout when your skin is inflamed and itchy. I am going to the gym more often lately, because my skin health is improving. I hope to get muscular and fit again in the future.

 

[Vinero]

Ray Peat has said many times that he recommends the carrot salad as a snack at least one hour after or before a meal so that less carotenoids are absorbed. He says it is best if the carrots go out of your system mostly undigested. Ray Peat is really anti carotenoid.

Yeah I am never eating carrots again. They are very unappealing to me and the fact that they are one of the richest sources of carotenoids means I consider them as toxic. There are safer ways to achieve good bowel health than eating carrots daily, such as mushrooms.

 

[Blossom]

the oat milks I found look fortified with D2, but doesn't say anything about A. Garrett SMith says "they " may pass laws that let products not have to put Vit A amount. I am still wondering about everyone's thoughts on Organic Non GMO non fortified Soymilk. I want to use, but haven't. Am staying with tilapia, beef, rice and beans at the moment. But for Oat cereals I want to use soymilk. SOme lables say no vit A, but some sites show like 23 iu.

Elmhurst Milked Oats isn’t fortified.

 

[Tarmander]

“I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same.”

Ray Peat

Perhaps many of us underestimated just how low our metabolisms were. Gbolduev said something like only 20% of people would be healthy on a Peat diet. I remember in a Matt Stone interview he had a similar figure as far as success went on his "everything" diet.

The ordering was wrong here. Many thought that milk and OJ was the way out of a low metabolism when in fact it is the foods that work well for people who already have a high metabolism. You could rename this whole forum "How to fix a broken metabolism." The world's problem is a broken metabolism.

 

[somuch4food]

Thanks for that.

This is going to take some huge turnaround in my healthy food beliefs. I purposely used to eat oily fish 4-6 times a week, in part for omega 3s but it seems that all nuts are seemingly out on a low VA diet.

Walnuts, almonds and sunflower seeds are ok unless you go very very low A.

 

[InChristAlone]

What causes body fat gain is the following, from my understandings. Yo-yo'ing between high and low stress. In the low stress periods I can sometimes feel pretty decent, but then something always happens to make me feel bad again, most usually poor quality sleep. So literally every day I go from high stress to low stress to high stress again. It's this yo-yo that causes fat gain. No consistency.

Being consistently low stress is the key to both metabolic health and weight management. I have yet to manage consistent low stress and this is why I have problems. I have yet to manage to have perfect sleep - which imo is one of the biggest factors to maintaining low stress on a day to day basis.

I agree that the body stores fat in times of stress. But you didn't address the temp. Has Peat ever said a temp of 100 is good? I had only read getting a fever was for therapeutic reasons, not to stay there.

 

[tallglass13]

Elmhurst Milked Oats isn’t fortified.

thanks blossom, I will find that one. thanks

 

[schultz]

FWIW, it seems only healthy people can tolerate milk. I don't know one sick person here who has done well on milk. Not one. You're one of the rare few who is healthy and can tolerate it. I personally no longer believe intaking milk is the path to health.

It does seem a lot of people don't do well with it. I guess I just fail to understand what it's like to not tolerate milk since I've never had a problem with it. I did cut it out for a while maybe 12-14 years ago, and re-introduced it later with no problems.

I just love milk. I like the animals that make milk, I like drinking milk and I like all the products made with milk. Cheese, ice cream, butter! What's not to love?! It's like the only food made specifically for an animal to eat. I guess maybe fruit is meant to be consumed as well... and you could make the case for eggs being food for the developing animal.

Anyway, dairy is great! Sucks that some people don't do well with it.

Perhaps many of us underestimated just how low our metabolisms were.

It's possible.

 

[Mufasa]

Yeah I am never eating carrots again. They are very unappealing to me and the fact that they are one of the richest sources of carotenoids means I consider them as toxic. There are safer ways to achieve good bowel health than eating carrots daily, such as mushrooms.

Or carrots that are not orange, ekoplaza is selling purple carrots recently. These are how carrots historically used to look

 

[Mufasa]

Perhaps many of us underestimated just how low our metabolisms were. Gbolduev said something like only 20% of people would be healthy on a Peat diet. I remember in a Matt Stone interview he had a similar figure as far as success went on his "everything" diet.

The ordering was wrong here. Many thought that milk and OJ was the way out of a low metabolism when in fact it is the foods that work well for people who already have a high metabolism. You could rename this whole forum "How to fix a broken metabolism." The world's problem is a broken metabolism.

Yes, I was always jealous how good some techniques from Ray Peat work with friends of my. Like when they have really upset stomach from drinking and eating fast food, they come to me for help, and I recommend some raw carrots with vinegar. They were cured in minutes, and so happy about it, while I was clueluess fixing my own chronic upset stomach.

But at this point, Ray Peat works really well for me. I do some things different, like starch instead of sugar, but the main ideas work really well for me.

 

[Nebula]

Perhaps many of us underestimated just how low our metabolisms were. Gbolduev said something like only 20% of people would be healthy on a Peat diet. I remember in a Matt Stone interview he had a similar figure as far as success went on his "everything" diet.

The ordering was wrong here. Many thought that milk and OJ was the way out of a low metabolism when in fact it is the foods that work well for people who already have a high metabolism. You could rename this whole forum "How to fix a broken metabolism." The world's problem is a broken metabolism.

This should be the first thing newcomers to this forum read. I'm grabbing this for a forum quote.

 

[Dobbler]

Perhaps many of us underestimated just how low our metabolisms were. Gbolduev said something like only 20% of people would be healthy on a Peat diet. I remember in a Matt Stone interview he had a similar figure as far as success went on his "everything" diet.

The ordering was wrong here. Many thought that milk and OJ was the way out of a low metabolism when in fact it is the foods that work well for people who already have a high metabolism. You could rename this whole forum "How to fix a broken metabolism." The world's problem is a broken metabolism.

And let me guess, just ditch vitamin A and that will heal you right?

 

[Vinero]

I went to the gym last night and had a cardio session. I ran on the treadmill for 40 minutes. After I was done I got harsh detox symptoms which lasted all day today. I could really feel the retinol in my body, it feels very inflammatory and excitatory. I get similar symptoms when using red light or vitamin D. I wonder if all these things release retinol in the bloodstream or something. Dr Garret Smith seems to think that exercise lowers retinol levels, and that explains the health benefits people experience as a result of (aerobic) exercise.

 

[Tarmander]

And let me guess, just ditch vitamin A and that will heal you right?

Seems to be working for me. I am not a "believer." I do what works.

 

[Tarmander]

This should be the first thing newcomers to this forum read. I'm grabbing this for a forum quote.

Things evolve around here which is great.

Yes, I was always jealous how good some techniques from Ray Peat work with friends of my. Like when they have really upset stomach from drinking and eating fast food, they come to me for help, and I recommend some raw carrots with vinegar. They were cured in minutes, and so happy about it, while I was clueluess fixing my own chronic upset stomach.

But at this point, Ray Peat works really well for me. I do some things different, like starch instead of sugar, but the main ideas work really well for me.

I hear that. Most non-sick people could chug a bunch of milk without much issue. When I first started with Peat I could drink a couple quarts of milk per day granted I also drank a bunch of coffee...but now that would give me all kinds of issues.

 

[Blossom]

And let me guess, just ditch vitamin A and that will heal you right?

Yes, it’s working for me too. No one is forcing anyone to do this but there’s really no need to make fun of people who are finally feeling better and sharing their experience. I’m not trying to single you out btw.

Honestly though there is a difference between stating views on why someone thinks the theory is incorrect in a respectful way and belittling people. I didn’t talk much about my experience for several months for numerous reasons but primarily it opens a person up to a lot of criticism. Don’t we all face enough of that IRL?

I’m sure many people having success just move on with their life and don’t bother with posting on forums especially RPF because of the drama. People can say what they want about those of us doing well on low A but at least we stayed around and were willing to be part of the controversy.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes, it’s working for me too. No one is forcing anyone to do this but there’s really no need to make fun of people who are finally feeling better and sharing their experience. I’m not trying to single you out btw.

Honestly though there is a difference between stating views on why someone thinks the theory is incorrect in a respectful way and belittling people. I didn’t talk much about my experience for several months for numerous reasons but primarily it opens a person up to a lot of criticism. Don’t we all face enough of that IRL?

I’m sure many people having success just move on with their life and don’t bother with posting on forums especially RPF because of the drama. People can say what they want about those of us doing well on low A but at least we stayed around and were willing to be part of the controversy.

Thank-you for sticking around and sharing your experience!!

 

[Blossom]

Thank-you for sticking around and sharing your experience!!

Thanks Janelle, I love this place. Some of us may have needed to take a slightly different route for healing but that’s okay!

 

[Spondive]

I am interested because I have prescribed thyroid and have taken thyroid and not getting effects that should happen because I always thought something might be blocking the action of thyroid at the tissue level.. such as increasing temperature etc. and given that people are getting better on low carotene and retinol is fascinating.. I myself have tried drinking milk and oj but never lasted because it wasn’t tasty enough or was even repulsive at times so I never really restricted myself except for trying to limit pufa. So I have been low A for three days and trying this out because I have had mildly yellow to orange calluses for years which has never resolved along with some other issues.. so far in only 3 days not much except I feel a little more upbeat. We will see