Dairy Fat And Fatigue

[Runenight201]

Thanks for the response. The chocolate milk affects me positively (if made properly), and I've had some great highs with coffee in the past, so I do think I'm able to properly metabolize it, I just need to figure out the right parameters.

I think there certainly is something to be said for coffee tolerance, especially since many people drink 2-5 cups a day. I've never gone over a cup a day, so I do not think I've developed a tolerance that may be causing problems.

That's an interesting note on cortisol/testosterone ratio. I think I've pinpointed what a cortisol response feels like in me (usually a flush, heated body, followed by sweating and oily skin), and if I drink black coffee on an empty stomach that is sure to be the case. I no longer crave coffee on an empty stomach as a result, so I think my appetite has learned from those experiences, or rather it knows what's needed on an empty stomach and it's not coffee lol (usually meat/eggs and starch). When I crave coffee (usually when my glycogen levels are high mid-day), I don't get that cortisol stress response, but as of late that inhibited sleepy state.

I think black coffee perhaps may be a no go. After all, I wouldn't eat bitter chocolate straight, it needs milk/sugar to buffer it and make it very enjoyable. In fact, last night I made chocolate milk that was way to strong and I had a stress response and delayed my sleep by about an hour because of it. The same might need to be the case with coffee, where as it's too concentrated, and my body responds by shutting down rather than stimulating, but with milk/sugar, I'll be able to receive the beneficial aspects of the coffee without becoming inhibited.

I'll try making a latte tomorrow mid-day if I get the coffee craving, and report back.

 

[Cirion]

Yes everyones' mileage with coffee will differ, but I think just about everyone here agrees that black coffee is bad. Sugar (and probably saturated fat) should generally always be taken in with coffee. Probably also salt, maybe also gelatin. I do note that a big shot of sugar helps a bit with the caffeine assimilation for me, but I still feel like ultimately it does more harm than good, but that's just me. The nice thing about going off caffeine is that in the rare case that I feel I "NEED" caffeine, it'll now have a potent effect on me, lol. I am just telling you my experience, not necessarily saying others should or should not take it in.

maybe the problem for me too is that I was having most of my caffeine in the morning. You'd think logically this would be the best time to have coffee, but my experience seems to suggest otherwise. I almost always have a quick energy crisis after breakfast when coffee is part of it. My suspicion for that is that cortisol already peaks in the morning, and coffee makes it rise even more, prepping you for a massive energy crash. It seems to jive with my experience that coffee at around noon actually gives me the biggest energy and mood boost.

Again I think the gene expression in caffeine metabolism matters - and probably helps to explain why some thrive off 10 cups a day and why others like me struggle to make even 1-2 cups work. I know that epigenetics is popular around here, I believe in epigenetics also, but there are some things in your genes you CANNOT change and caffeine metabolism is one of them.

It's useful to try to characterize an ideal diet and supplement strategy but sometimes that fails, and caffeine is a good example of that.

Caffeine is metabolized in the body by the enzyme Cytochrome P450 1A2 (CYP1A2). Every person has two copies of the gene which makes the enzyme CYP1A2 (one copy from each parent). There are 2 variations of this gene which affect how quickly a person metabolizes caffeine. The CYP1A2*1A variety (“allele”) makes an enzyme that metabolizes caffeine very rapidly. However, the CYP1A2*1F allele metabolizes caffeine slowly. The difference between these two alleles is one single nucleotide, an A to C substitution at position 734 of the CYP1A2 gene.

Individuals who have two copies of the fast CYP1A2*1A allele are fast caffeine metabolizers; whereas people who have at least one copy of the slow CYP1A2*1F allele are slow caffeine metabolizers.

Genotypes

• Homozygous CYP1A2*1F - Slow Metabolizer
• Heterozygous CYP1A2*1F/ CYP1A2*1A - Slow Metabolizer
• Homozygous CYP1A2*1A - Fast Metabolizer

According to that, it seems like logically most people are slow metabolizers, and the only people with fast caffeine metabolism are those which BOTH parents had the CYP1A2*1A gene and passed them both to you. Through sheer statistics, seems like only 33% of people would have a good caffeine metabolism.

 

[InChristAlone]

I think ya'll just need more vitamin C. It is a great coffee replacement in my opinion. And is actually a vitamin unlike caffeine.

Also, dairy fat is amazing. it makes me warm.

 

[Cirion]

Yes I have been using bulk ascorbic acid for a while now.

BTW RP basically thinks caffeine is a vitamin too lol :P I know what you mean though.

Ironically enough, after having 16-20g a day I got a cold a couple days ago. What gives with that? lol

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes I have been using bulk ascorbic acid for a while now.

BTW RP basically thinks caffeine is a vitamin too lol :P I know what you mean though.

Ironically enough, after having 16-20g a day I got a cold a couple days ago. What gives with that? lol

Cold season haha it doesn't prevent my yearly cold unfortunately. And I think a cold is just a way for the body to get rid of bad cells. Also good to get a fever every now and then. Cancer protective.

 

[Runenight201]

Yes everyones' mileage with coffee will differ, but I think just about everyone here agrees that black coffee is bad. Sugar (and probably saturated fat) should generally always be taken in with coffee. Probably also salt, maybe also gelatin. I do note that a big shot of sugar helps a bit with the caffeine assimilation for me, but I still feel like ultimately it does more harm than good, but that's just me. The nice thing about going off caffeine is that in the rare case that I feel I "NEED" caffeine, it'll now have a potent effect on me, lol. I am just telling you my experience, not necessarily saying others should or should not take it in.

maybe the problem for me too is that I was having most of my caffeine in the morning. You'd think logically this would be the best time to have coffee, but my experience seems to suggest otherwise. I almost always have a quick energy crisis after breakfast when coffee is part of it. My suspicion for that is that cortisol already peaks in the morning, and coffee makes it rise even more, prepping you for a massive energy crash. It seems to jive with my experience that coffee at around noon actually gives me the biggest energy and mood boost.

Again I think the gene expression in caffeine metabolism matters - and probably helps to explain why some thrive off 10 cups a day and why others like me struggle to make even 1-2 cups work. I know that epigenetics is popular around here, I believe in epigenetics also, but there are some things in your genes you CANNOT change and caffeine metabolism is one of them.

It's useful to try to characterize an ideal diet and supplement strategy but sometimes that fails, and caffeine is a good example of that.



According to that, it seems like logically most people are slow metabolizers, and the only people with fast caffeine metabolism are those which BOTH parents had the CYP1A2*1A gene and passed them both to you. Through sheer statistics, seems like only 33% of people would have a good caffeine metabolism.

Yea I don’t crave coffee in the morning anymore, especially after transitioning to chocolate milk.

The more I think about it, aside from the whole caffeine metabolism thing, there’s probably a threshold of the amount of coffee that’s beneficial that is dependent on a number of different factors such as health, glycogen stores, micronutrient status, etc...

This is probably why I have felt good with coffee/milk/sugar in the past, because the added nutrients in milk and sucrose in sugar all help to aid in assimilation of the coffee. However, without the milk/sugar buffer, the coffee hits much stronger and it overwhelms my body, and hurts instead of helps.

Tomorrow should be interesting, we’ll see how the latte goes.

I think ya'll just need more vitamin C. It is a great coffee replacement in my opinion. And is actually a vitamin unlike caffeine.

Also, dairy fat is amazing. it makes me warm.

I try not to supplement, although if I ever reach a point where I feel as if I cannot progress through diet and lifestyle, than I will consider it. For the meantime, I've had the most success with dietary interventions over any supplementation.

 

[Cirion]

Yes, you seem to be jiving with my exact same thoughts. Coffee seems to be tolerated better when health is better. Trying to "force" tolerance is not helpful IMO and IME.

I'm starting to also think improving health naturally with little to no supplements is probably the best thing too. I think you should probably only supplement if you are pretty much certain you're low on something (from hair/blood test data, ideally). This seems especially true for minerals like copper, iron, zinc. The problem is if you supplement zinc, for example, if you don't have zinc deficiency, it can throw both your copper and iron levels out of whack. Everything is connected. You can actually make iron levels too low in some cases (which is rarely talked about around here, usually people are worried about iron levels too high) if you mega dose zinc or copper in the absence of iron, from what I've heard.

 

[Runenight201]

@Janelle525

LOL well you may be right

My stomach was in a weird place where I felt hunger of some sort yet it seemed too full to really find any food appealing.

I then thought about your vitamin C comment, and then started thinking about how lemons would taste...

So I squirted a ton of lemon juice that you can buy in those lemon shaped containers. And it tasted awesome. And my stomach feels much better. So maybe I did need more Vitamin C =P

These lemon shaped containers for sure have added crap in them, so I should probably just buy some lemons and shuck on them from time to time, although I am a little worried about my teeth doing that... I'll have to look into alkaline mouth rinses for post lemon shuck sesshes.

 

[Runenight201]

Yes, you seem to be jiving with my exact same thoughts. Coffee seems to be tolerated better when health is better. Trying to "force" tolerance is not helpful IMO and IME.

I'm starting to also think improving health naturally with little to no supplements is probably the best thing too. I think you should probably only supplement if you are pretty much certain you're low on something (from hair/blood test data, ideally). This seems especially true for minerals like copper, iron, zinc. The problem is if you supplement zinc, for example, if you don't have zinc deficiency, it can throw both your copper and iron levels out of whack. Everything is connected. You can actually make iron levels too low in some cases (which is rarely talked about around here, usually people are worried about iron levels too high) if you mega dose zinc or copper in the absence of iron, from what I've heard.

Yea that's why I like going by food cravings. How I see it is that our body knows best in terms of its nutrient status and what it needs, and will send appropriate hunger signals telling you what you should eat so long as there's been proper exposure to a range of different foods.

That's the theory I've been working on and it's worked fairly well for me. I'm sure many people could run into problems doing this, but in certain individuals I think this a valid approach.

 

[CLASH]

@Runenight201
Doubt its the fat. Probably the concentrated casomorphin in cheese which behaves like an opiate.

 

[Runenight201]

@Runenight201
Doubt its the fat. Probably the concentrated casomorphin in cheese which behaves like an opiate.

Maybe, but I'm past that issue now. I've had cheese without fatigue, and I've also consumed other foods that have caused fatigue (such as eggs and starch, exclusive of each other).

It may be a blood sugar regulation problem, or something else that I'm not aware of. I've for the most part fixed most fatigue, aside from this mysterious coffee dilemma, which I will be experimenting with tomorrow.

About to go buy some lemons to shuck =)

 

[CLASH]

@Runenight201
Each have thier own cause of fatigue. The tryptophan content of eggs can cause fatigue, i have noticed it with them as well as with shrimp. The starch blood sugar swing or if you have a gut issue the bacterial products can lead to fatigue. Although the fatigues feel a bit different from eachother if you really pay attention. The oleic acid from beef tallow can cause a sort of fatigue as well, more like a super relaxedness.

 

[Runenight201]

@Runenight201
Each have thier own cause of fatigue. The tryptophan content of eggs can cause fatigue, i have noticed it with them as well as with shrimp. The starch blood sugar swing or if you have a gut issue the bacterial products can lead to fatigue. Although the fatigues feel a bit different from eachother if you really pay attention. The oleic acid from beef tallow can cause a sort of fatigue as well, more like a super relaxedness.

Interesting.

I’m beginning to think then that it’s a matter of inappropriate food consumption given the physiological state.

For instance, this morning i just had 4 eggs w/ cheese, 2 pieces of toast, and oj for breakfast, followed by 1% milk with coffee and sugar and then some lemon water, and I feel good (albeit slightly sleep deprived because I only slept 5 hours, due to not eating enough before bed, but my stomach wasn’t sending me any hunger signals and i don’t like forcing food anymore)

However, I’ve had the experience of consuming 3 eggs with oj later around 7pm and was forced to nap for about 15 minutes. Which has happened with many other foods I’ve consumed as well.

In this latter case, I probably didn’t need the eggs, but I forced them down, which resulted in my body inappropriately handling the nutrients involved, and subsequently shutting down my body. I’m sure there’s a lot of biochemistry behind all of this, involving different pathways nutrients can take depending on enzyme status, nutrient availability, etc...

So I misread my body’s nutrient call (perhaps this is a better word than hunger signal?) and gave it eggs when it really just needed water or lemon or magnesium etc, etc...

This could also be why the body stores excess fat. Inappropriate foods are fed given the physiological state, which leads to the body improperly handling the energy and nutrients and leading to poor assimilation.

Which is why I now am updating my craving philosophy to be a continual refinement of feeling, hypothesizing, implementing, contemplation, understanding and ultimately bodily wisdom.

 

[jet9]

I've pinpointed as of late that dairy fat causes an immediate sense of fatigue, that is lifted after about 30 mins to an hour after ingestion of the fat.

If I consume a high enough amount of this fat, the fatigue becomes bad enough for me to have to take a nap.

It's a shame because I love how cheese tastes, and I definitely crave it about once a day, and I always feel satiated and a positive mood from eating the cheese, but the fatigue post consumption.... I've switched to skim milk about once/twice a day with coffee and I have noticed positive effects from this, but I'm not sure if I can get used to cottage cheese...although I may have to give it a try.

Anyone else notice this from dairy fat?

i think any fat cause fatigue until you digest it. (can take 1-2 hours sometimes). For example i am experiencing the same issue with lard.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

A big Latte makes me tired
A double espresso amps me up nicely