A Weekly Dose Of Androgenic Steroids Affect Memory, Anxiety And Social Interaction In Rats

[vulture]

Did your dht raise if so how much??

I don't know. I did no DHT tests. And it is well documented that it raises DHT, interesting thing for me was to asses supression on low doses, which is undocumented. I suggest you to read the last pages of my thread...

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

Only if proviron was legal :/ or dht for that matter

Andractim should be easy to find.

A warning tho; Proviron massively binds to SHBG. It has no equivalent in the AAS world. I’d keep doses minimal as with everything that lowers it.

 

[vulture]

Andractim should be easy to find.

A warning tho; Proviron massively binds to SHBG. It has no equivalent in the AAS world. I’d keep doses minimal as with everything that lowers it.

If you know where to buy legit andractim, PM.
What are the potential harmful effect of Proviron biding to SHBG?

 

[haidut]

I’m not aware of many studies on a single weekly dose of any AAS in humans, probably because no one would want to use such a low-dose protocol in allopathic medicine.

A comparative study of the effect of the dose and exposure duration of anabolic androgenic steroids on behavior, cholinergic regulation, and oxidative stress in rats



Boldenone and Stanozolol aren’t necessarily super strong Androgens. I think that is a nice study with plenty of behavioral topics.

This is a well-known side effect of most AAS and it is due to suppressing pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA and allopregnanolone synthesis. It is probably one of the main reasons that Peat always suggests adding pregnenolone/DHEA to people who ask him about using AAS like Anavar, Proviron, etc. Some of the AAS are 5-AR inhibitors on top of suppressing steroidogenesis at the pregnenolone point, so this can lead to all sorts of other issues such as feminization, cortisol excess (degradation of which partially depends o 5-AR), demyelination (myelin formation apparently depends on 5-AR steroids), etc. Bioidentical T seems to be relatively milder compared to other AAS like boldenone, stanozolol, etc but it can still cause issues along the same lines, as the studies below show.
Notably, bioidentical DHT administration does not seem to produce such issues even when administered on its own probably because DHT can partially fill in for allopregnanolone and is a neurosteroid itself. I would still use some pregnenolone/DHEA, or progesterone/DHEA with DHT but of all the potent steroids out there IMO pure DHT is one of the least risky ones. Its only drawback is suppression of estrogen in higher doses but this can be addressed by adding even a very small dose of pregnenolone and/or progesterone and/or DHEA. Androsterone is also a lower risk option as it is a neurosteroid itself, precursor to DHT, and potent antidepressant as I posted in other threads. Its risks can also be mitigated by the pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA method.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ssion_induced_by_anabolic_androgenic_steroids
"...Anabolic androgenic steroid abuse triggers impulsive aggression, anxiety, and depression, which suggests a dysfunction of GABAergic neurotransmission. Socially isolated female mice that have received testosterone propionate (1.45 micromol/kg) treatment for 3 weeks during social isolation express aggression, neurosteroid downregulation, and changes in the cortical mRNA expression of several gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor subunits (alpha1, alpha2, gamma2 are decreased by 30-40%, and alpha4 and alpha5 are increased by 50%). Administration of allopregnanolone or the potent selective brain steroidogenic stimulant S-norfluoxetine, in doses (1.8-3.6 micromol/kg) that fail to inhibit 5-hydroxytryptamine reuptake, normalizes olfactory bulb neurosteroid level downregulation and abolishes aggression. This work underscores the role of neurosteroids in the regulation of aggression elicited by testosterone propionate in socially isolated female mice."

Changes in brain testosterone and allopregnanolone biosynthesis elicit aggressive behavior
"...Male but not female SI mice exhibit aggression that correlates with the down-regulation of brain neurosteroid biosynthesis. However, in female mice, long-term TP administration induces aggression associated with a decrease of brain allopregnanolone (Allo) content and a decrease (≈40%) of 5α-reductase type I mRNA expression. In spayed mice treated with TP, restitution experiments with progesterone and estrogen normalize brain Allo content and prevent aggression. Submicromolar doses of S-norfluoxetine (S-NFLX) that are insufficient to inhibit serotonin reuptake selectively increase brain Allo content and abolish TP-induced aggression. Our results support the view that TP-induced aggressive behavior is the result of a TP-mediated neurosteroid biosynthesis down-regulation that can be reversed by the S-NFLX-induced increase of brain Allo content."

Neurosteroid biosynthesis regulates sexually dimorphic fear and aggressive behavior in mice. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Animal models of psychiatric disorders, including socially isolated male mice or mice that receive a long-term treatment with anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS), show abnormal behaviors such as altered fear responses and aggression. In these animal models, the cortico-limbic mRNA expression of 5alpha-RI is regulated in a sexually dimorphic manner. Hence, in selected glutamatergic pyramidal neurons of the cortex, CA3, and basolateral amygdala and in granular cells of the dentate gyrus, mRNA expression of 5alpha-RI is decreased, which results in a downregulation of allopregnanolone content. In contrast, 5alpha-RI mRNA expression fails to change in the striatum medium spiny neurons and in the reticular thalamic nucleus neurons, which are GABAergic. By manipulating allopregnanolone levels in glutamatergic cortico-limbic neurons in opposite directions to improve [using the potent selective brain steroidogenic stimulant (SBSS) S-norfluoxetine] or induce (using the potent 5alpha-RI inhibitor SKF 105,111) behavioral deficits, respectively, we have established the fundamental role of cortico-limbic allopregnanolone levels in the sexually dimorphic regulation of aggression and fear. By selectively targeting allopregnanolone downregulation in glutamatergic cortico-limbic neurons, i.e., by improving the response of GABA(A) receptors to GABA, new therapeutics would offer appropriate and safe management of psychiatric conditions, including impulsive aggression, irritability, irrational fear, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorders, and depression."

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

thanks for sharing those studies. From the full papers:

Studies examining this issue showed that AAS display compound-specific aggression potential. The most abused AAS include Test Prop. which activates aggression at low non-anabolic doses, while nandrolone and stanozolol induce aggression in mice only at high anabolic doses (Table 1).

considering Proviron's low affinity to the AR, I'll keep using it (and feel awesome, currently on 12.5mg 4 days per week), and will absolutely throw in DHEA 6.25mg a day. Nice suggestion.

The positive effects include improved mental acuity and increased sexual drive, but these are associated with less wanted features such as impulsive aggression, episodic mania, psychosis, and major depression [54, 60]. Episodes of irritability and impulsive aggression may escalate to extreme violence, including murder attempts [61, 62]. AAS withdrawal symptoms include severe depression and suicide attempts [63].

Thank god all I get from such very low doses of Proviron is the positives.

Considering the very low / absence of suppression from Proviron, how would you explain the suppressed pregnenolone synthesis and the apparent increase in LDL in users? Is it inhibiting P450scc? Is it a negative feedback scenario? Are users taking way too much Proviron in the first place?

 

[vulture]

thanks for sharing those studies. From the full papers:



considering Proviron's low affinity to the AR, I'll keep using it (and feel awesome, currently on 12.5mg 4 days per week), and will absolutely throw in DHEA 6.25mg a day. Nice suggestion.



Thank god all I get from such very low doses of Proviron is the positives.

Considering the very low / absence of suppression from Proviron, how would you explain the suppressed pregnenolone synthesis and the apparent increase in LDL in users? Is it inhibiting P450scc? Is it a negative feedback scenario? Are users taking way too much Proviron in the first place?

I had total cholesterol about 10% up and Total T also about the same on Proviron 25 mg ED

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

yep I've seen your bloods eventually :) They looked very good. Why did you stop? Had you tried lower doses / more spaced out?

 

[vulture]

yep I've seen your bloods eventually :) They looked very good. Why did you stop? Had you tried lower doses / more spaced out?

My reliable source had no more Brazilian Bayer proviron, bought Landerlan’s one and it was pure bull****. I’m thinking on buying from Pharmacom but it might be risky to import such a thing. Also, low budget for bloodtests
Never did less than 25 mg. Never more than 2x50 mg a day

 

[haidut]

thanks for sharing those studies. From the full papers:



considering Proviron's low affinity to the AR, I'll keep using it (and feel awesome, currently on 12.5mg 4 days per week), and will absolutely throw in DHEA 6.25mg a day. Nice suggestion.



Thank god all I get from such very low doses of Proviron is the positives.

Considering the very low / absence of suppression from Proviron, how would you explain the suppressed pregnenolone synthesis and the apparent increase in LDL in users? Is it inhibiting P450scc? Is it a negative feedback scenario? Are users taking way too much Proviron in the first place?

Most downstream steroids suppress pregnenolone synthesis in the adrenals and gonads, through several feedback mechanisms. I think T and AAS have been shown to suppress StAR and this cholesterol conversion but there are also reports of T/DHT and especially androsterone lowering LDL. So, the picture is not very clear and the net effect for some steroids could be more cholesterol conversion but only in specific tissues like liver.
As far as Proviron - it is still basically DHT, so a dose of 25mg is probably only warranted for very hypogonadal males. I would try doses in the range of 5mg-10mg daily, similar to Anavar (which is almost the same steroid).

 

[Cameron]

Most downstream steroids suppress pregnenolone synthesis in the adrenals and gonads, through several feedback mechanisms. I think T and AAS have been shown to suppress StAR and this cholesterol conversion but there are also reports of T/DHT and especially androsterone lowering LDL. So, the picture is not very clear and the net effect for some steroids could be more cholesterol conversion but only in specific tissues like liver.
As far as Proviron - it is still basically DHT, so a dose of 25mg is probably only warranted for very hypogonadal males. I would try doses in the range of 5mg-10mg daily, similar to Anavar (which is almost the same steroid).

@haidut whay are your thoughts of cholesterol powder when using androsterone? So more cholesterol can be used in androgen support and helping get maximum effect from the andro?

 

[Arrade]

Most downstream steroids suppress pregnenolone synthesis in the adrenals and gonads, through several feedback mechanisms. I think T and AAS have been shown to suppress StAR and this cholesterol conversion but there are also reports of T/DHT and especially androsterone lowering LDL. So, the picture is not very clear and the net effect for some steroids could be more cholesterol conversion but only in specific tissues like liver.
As far as Proviron - it is still basically DHT, so a dose of 25mg is probably only warranted for very hypogonadal males. I would try doses in the range of 5mg-10mg daily, similar to Anavar (which is almost the same steroid).

Anavar is suppressive tho
Also worthless below 75 mg ime

 

[BGZ]

boldenone is a testosterone derivative and aromatizable (apparently less so than normal T though). Stanozolol is non-aromatizable, and glancing at the study, basically Protocol I rats that had low-dose Stanozolol scored better on most markers of cognition and dominance. Boldenone rats usually scored worse.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177623&type=printable

I think boldenone decrease gaba, that might be the reason for the decreased cognitive function.

 

[haidut]

@haidut whay are your thoughts of cholesterol powder when using androsterone? So more cholesterol can be used in androgen support and helping get maximum effect from the andro?

I think it would be a good synergy. Pregnenolone would work too as an add-on to androsterone.