Help. I Have Severe Panic Disorder

[Manwithnoname]

It all started with my job while in my last year of high school. I started to get paresthesia throughout my whole body. Then I started getting amnesia to the point I would forget what I just ate. Two weeks ago I was so dizzy that I would get panic attacks from just walking outside. Then I would experience nighttime attacks where I woke gasping for air. Now I can exercise and move around but I still feel anxious and have sensations of pressure in my chest and bad shortness of breath. I experimented with the frolov breathing device but it only helped somewhat. Getting stuck into the low metabolism thought of the Buteyko school did not help. I know I don't eat enough. But I just do not feel like eating. It is very difficult for me to do so. Not to mention the angina and pains in the side of my neck. However ER checked and said my heart was fine. These things have been occurring for over a year to the point that I almost didn't graduate. I don't enjoy life anymore. I just live.

 

[tara]

Sorry you are struggling like this.

I know I don't eat enough

Do you want to run a typical days's diet through cronometer or similar to get a rough idea of what nutrition you are getting from your food? You can share it here if you want.
If you are not eating anywhere near enough, then it seems to me you may need to eat more to be able to recover from the other issues. (If it's been extreme, build up gradually, and have medical supervision. Rare and treatable but dangerous refeeding syndrome can arise.)
I have had dizziness when I was a young adult that in retrospect (I'm older now) I think was from hunger - I had no idea of my real needs at that time. I found Gwyneth Olwyn's writing eye-opening a few years ago. She's here: Patients and General Public
Thread on this forum here: Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia
She studied what normal people ate, and bases her recommendatons for recovery on these. She concluded that young men normally eat on average about 3500 cals.

Maybe you can find foods that are easier for you to get going on. What are you eating, and what else could you enjoy or manage? Are you cooking for yourself, are is someone cooking for you?

Seems like you could use some support locally - hope you can find some. Good that they say your heart is good. If you can find a doctor with some experience assisting people with recovering from undereating, they may be of help. Have you told your doctor that you are not eating enough, getting dizzy, gasping for air, panic attacks, etc, and that you want help to eat more to see if that will start to resolve the issues?

Gwyneth Olwyn is very keen on getting enough calories. I'm keen on getting enough minerals and vitamins and a bit of protein with that, so eating some fruit/veges/juices/protein etc. Olwyn thingks PUFAs are useful. Peat doesn't. I'd favour leaning to more saturated fats like butter and coconut oil and meat, and not too much seed oil. But almost anything is better than starving, so eat what you can eat.

I see you've read about Buteyko. There are threads here discussing some of the teachings that might reduce metabolism, compared with Peat's that tend to favour raising metabolism. I guess you've read about how low CO2 could contribute to all the symptoms you describe. Seems to me, Buteyko method focuses on conservation of CO2; Peat on production. Both have value. I guess you've figured out how to keep your mouth shut at night? Got your diaphragm going?
I only made slight headway with Buteyko-related exercise, but they were worth doing. Lowest hanging fruit was closing mouth, reactivating diaphragm (easy with a chest strap). I practice other reduced breathing exercises from time to time.
Your cells can't produce CO2 without fuel to burn, and all the other co-factors. For me, I'm pretty sure that eating more, more regularly, and getting more alkaline minerals and maybe getting more B-vits helped too, when I had a low patch.

Good luck.

 

[Manwithnoname]

Yeah I need to get my diet sorted out. Reading up on metabolic typing. However I have always had dysapnea but it has gotten really bad to the point I am always in panic mode. Sometimes my body just can’t take the suffocation anymore so i have a full blown panic attack. Yesterday I almost blacked out and my chest and limbs went numb where I couldn’t walk. It was the worst attack I ever had. So I then went to the Er where they did tests and the only thing that caught there eye was my high blood viscosity. They said to get a sleep study done as they knew I had sleep apnea symptoms before. My oxygen sat goes down to 95-96 sometimes. Don’t know if that has anything to do with it.

 

[Atman]

How old are you? How much do you weigh?

When do you get these attacks?
Is it random or do they seem to happen more often in certain situations and contexts?

 

[InChristAlone]

I agree with Tara about making sure you get food in even if you do not have an appetite. It will be hard in the beginning I had to force feed when I was going through panic. But I just told myself "Janelle, I know you don't want to eat, but you have to or you will be dealing with this the rest of your life". Like a pep talk every meal time. There were times my husband said you are melting down because you haven't eaten! And then I had a meal and was fine! It can be hard to see in the moment because your mind is just full of fearful thoughts. I also used cyproheptadine to recover as it gives a break from the anxious thoughts, increases appetite and gives good sleep even if you are panicked.

The other thing to deal with is the attacks themselves. I love love love 'DARE' by Barry Mcdonaugh. They have a Facebook support group too where hundreds of people are getting over their panic disorder and leading normal lives again.

I know what all of this is like, I went through it for yrs. Including the ER visit, but everything will always turn up fine because these are not dangerous a panic attack cannot kill you, it's just really really uncomfortable.

 

[Manwithnoname]

How old are you? How much do you weigh?

When do you get these attacks?
Is it random or do they seem to happen more often in certain situations and contexts?

I am 19. I get these attacks by dysapnea. I feel so out of breath that I don’t believe I can exercise without creating a panic attack. Doctors day it’s all anxiety but I was a previous asthmatic when a child. My breathing at night is much heavier then it’s ever been. Which made me wonder if I have an infection of some kind because I also have some wheezing. I could take 5 mg of valluum(to relieve the panic) and still feel short of breath. I don’t think it’s anxiety. It just really feels life threatening. I though extreme dysapnea was only an elderly thing.

 

[Atman]

Are you overweight?

So you get these attacks mainly when you are trying to work out? Or wenn you go out in public?

You didn't really answer the questions.

 

[InChristAlone]

The wheezing and panic can also be signs of serotonin. Have you ever tried taking Benedryl?

 

[Manwithnoname]

Are you overweight?

So you get these attacks mainly when you are trying to work out? Or wenn you go out in public?

You didn't really answer the questions.

157 lb. 5 ‘9

 

[Manwithnoname]

The wheezing and panic can also be signs of serotonin. Have you ever tried taking Benedryl?

Yes it gives me panic taking it because o don’t like the drowsy feeling.

 

[Manwithnoname]

Are you overweight?

So you get these attacks mainly when you are trying to work out? Or wenn you go out in public?

You didn't really answer the questions.

Sorry I am not in a very clear minded state right now just got back from a sleep study which I didn’t sleep much.

 

[InChristAlone]

I thought this was a really well done video on a anxiety and all of it's effects in the body:


I have had almost every symptom of anxiety and panic. They all suck. But they aren't dangerous, I mean unless you continue panicking for decades then your body will be very depleted.

 

[tara]

Reading up on metabolic typing.

My hunch would be to look at basics first, and only consider this if a decent attempt at addressing basics doesn't give any improvements.

Basics to me include:
Looking at your typical daily diet - eg using cronometer or similar - and getting an approximate assessment of how much it contains of:
calories
carbohydrates
protein
calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, other minerals
vitamins
If there are significant gaps, seeing if you can find foods you can eat to raise the level of nutrition.
Checking that it is not too high in known antimetabolic factors, eg polyunsaturated fats
Then seeing of you can tell if there are particular foods you are intolerant to. Foods that get some people (but not everyone) include gluten, dairy, eggs, nightshades, ...

Sunlight
Breathing retraining if necessary
Movement
Human company

I am 19. I get these attacks by dysapnea. I feel so out of breath that I don’t believe I can exercise without creating a panic attack.

I am 19. I get these attacks by dysapnea. I feel so out of breath that I don’t believe I can exercise without creating a panic attack. Doctors day it’s all anxiety but I was a previous asthmatic when a child. My breathing at night is much heavier then it’s ever been. Which made me wonder if I have an infection of some kind because I also have some wheezing. I could take 5 mg of valluum(to relieve the panic) and still feel short of breath. I don’t think it’s anxiety. It just really feels life threatening. I though extreme dysapnea was only an elderly thing.

Have you been told be an expert that exercise will cause panic, or have you tried and found it to be the case, or is it something you imagine/fear? If the dyapnea is of the hyperventilation variety, then gentle movement will produce more CO2 than being still, and may be helpful. That is definitely what I found for myself. If my breathing go particularly bad - which it occasionally did a while back while in bed at night - I could not resolve it with breathing exercises while staying sin bed. I had to get up and move around. And eat a little something. Then after doing something for a while - light housework - and having a snack, my breathing would be settled again.
Have you been diagnosed with asthma?
Remember movement of any kind requires fuel, so you have to not just move, but eat too. If you force yourself to move without nourishment when you are severely depleted, you might increase stress. I'm not encouraging hard exercise, just some suitable movement.

I liked Patrick McKeown's 'Close Your Mouth', too. He eliminated the symptoms of asthma for himself, and helped many others to do so, with a programme to counteract chronic hyperventilation.

 

[Manwithnoname]

My hunch would be to look at basics first, and only consider this if a decent attempt at addressing basics doesn't give any improvements.

Basics to me include:
Looking at your typical daily diet - eg using cronometer or similar - and getting an approximate assessment of how much it contains of:
calories
carbohydrates
protein
calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, other minerals
vitamins
If there are significant gaps, seeing if you can find foods you can eat to raise the level of nutrition.
Checking that it is not too high in known antimetabolic factors, eg polyunsaturated fats
Then seeing of you can tell if there are particular foods you are intolerant to. Foods that get some people (but not everyone) include gluten, dairy, eggs, nightshades, ...

Sunlight
Breathing retraining if necessary
Movement
Human company


Have you been told be an expert that exercise will cause panic, or have you tried and found it to be the case, or is it something you imagine/fear? If the dyapnea is of the hyperventilation variety, then gentle movement will produce more CO2 than being still, and may be helpful. That is definitely what I found for myself. If my breathing go particularly bad - which it occasionally did a while back while in bed at night - I could not resolve it with breathing exercises while staying sin bed. I had to get up and move around. And eat a little something. Then after doing something for a while - light housework - and having a snack, my breathing would be settled again.
Have you been diagnosed with asthma?
Remember movement of any kind requires fuel, so you have to not just move, but eat too. If you force yourself to move without nourishment when you are severely depleted, you might increase stress. I'm not encouraging hard exercise, just some suitable movement.

I liked Patrick McKeown's 'Close Your Mouth', too. He eliminated the symptoms of asthma for himself, and helped many others to do so, with a programme to counteract chronic hyperventilation.

I am really interested in Dr Kelly’s metabolic typing for diet. I wanted to figure out my type and go to a nutritionist to set a proper diet.
About the hyperventilation I always found that physical activity with nose only breathing helped reduce my breathing. Breathing retraining never really helped me( same as you.)
Yes I am indeed an previous asthmatic. However recently I have developed some type of infection or reaction on my respiratory track. This is really uncomfortable. So I am taking albuterol. I think exercise is great and I think ray Peat is wrong on it. He thinks lactic acid is harmful and glycolysis is bad an so on. It is according to my belief that the creator made our bodies and put nothing in it that will harm. Same with peats view of estrogen and serotonin. Of course having too much lactate is bad same with seretonin and cortisol or any hormone. Normalacy is key. Anyhow I think exercise like walking and running has always suited me. I actually prefer nose breathing. I have never had a panic attack during exercise but before or after. It’s pretty weird. Any activity like throwing a frisbee or football with a friend is always fun. I think some of these exercise fanatics don’t take the time to settle down and enjoy themselves and others.
I used to do 19 hour fasts every day drink two cups of coffee and eat a low carb keto diet. Of course all of this is really stressful on the human body. And a couple months before I was doing mouth breathing breathless intense muscle burning bodybuilding program. So I believe I have adrenal fatigue. Plus according to my genetics info not so well on high fat diets. Actually there is one marker associated with me having 2.5% body fat loss if I did higher carb! I would be really interested if gbolduev is here. He had some interesting stuff that coincided with my current reasearch on metabolic types.

 

[tara]

About the hyperventilation I always found that physical activity with nose only breathing helped reduce my breathing. Breathing retraining never really helped me( same as you.)

Physical activity with nasal breathing is breathing retraining. Especially if you don't lose it afterwards.

I think exercise is great and I think ray Peat is wrong on it. He thinks lactic acid is harmful and glycolysis is bad an so on.

What has Peat said that you think is wrong on the subject of exercise? Exercise physiologists generally agree excess lactic exercise is a problem, don't they? And Peat has spoken in favour of meaningful activity, as it seems you do, and doing things to maintain muscle, etc. Just not excesses of meaningless or harmful excercise.

Any activity like throwing a frisbee or football with a friend is always fun.

:)

I have never had a panic attack during exercise but before or after.

Could that be from hunger, or from pushing it too hard?

metabolic typing for diet.

Plus according to my genetics info not so well on high fat diets.

What do your findings suggest you eat?
I'm not pushing you to eat a high fat diet, and obviously ketogenic isn't usually Peat's recommendation for most people either. Quite possibly you can find a way forward with a lot more carbs, esp. if you choose ones to give you lots of good minerals too. But if you are severely stressed, you may find going to very low-lat extremes may not serve you either. And you may need to transition gradually rather than switch quickly between radically different approaches.

I wanted to figure out my type and go to a nutritionist to set a proper diet.

I'm not sure what you'd get from this - it might be a big improvement on what you've been eating. Or you could try eating lots of fruit and veges and some meat and dairy and eggs and a bit of this and that and tot up in cronometer and see how it looks and feels, and adjust accordingly. Getting it personally tuned will be down to you at some point either way.

Lung infection is another complication. I'm no expert on that - is it something to address with antibiotics?

 

[Manwithnoname]

Physical activity with nasal breathing is breathing retraining. Especially if you don't lose it afterwards.

What has Peat said that you think is wrong on the subject of exercise? Exercise physiologists generally agree excess lactic exercise is a problem, don't they? And Peat has spoken in favour of meaningful activity, as it seems you do, and doing things to maintain muscle, etc. Just not excesses of meaningless or harmful excercise.

:)

Could that be from hunger, or from pushing it too hard?


What do your findings suggest you eat?
I'm not pushing you to eat a high fat diet, and obviously ketogenic isn't usually Peat's recommendation for most people either. Quite possibly you can find a way forward with a lot more carbs, esp. if you choose ones to give you lots of good minerals too. But if you are severely stressed, you may find going to very low-lat extremes may not serve you either. And you may need to transition gradually rather than switch quickly between radically different approaches.


I'm not sure what you'd get from this - it might be a big improvement on what you've been eating. Or you could try eating lots of fruit and veges and some meat and dairy and eggs and a bit of this and that and tot up in cronometer and see how it looks and feels, and adjust accordingly. Getting it personally tuned will be down to you at some point either way.

Lung infection is another complication. I'm no expert on that - is it something to address with antibiotics?

I have high hematocrit, high iron, and possible high ferretin. I am a carrier of hemochromatosis as my mom has it. I also just figured out that I have mild sleep apnea and a deviated septum with obstructions. Although I have that I was able to unblock my nose via buteyko. However I think buteyko might have contribute to my high blood count as breatholds contract spleen to produce more red blood cells.

 

[tara]

I have high hematocrit, high iron, and possible high ferretin.

I don't have any special knowledge or expertise on these.
Do you have ways to bring down the excess iron, eg regular blood draws etc?

 

[Manwithnoname]

I don't have any special knowledge or expertise on these.
Do you have ways to bring down the excess iron, eg regular blood draws etc?

Yes. But I recently checked with a blood specialist and they were just slightly above the norm. So nothing to worry about.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Three things you should try.

If you start hyperventilating, stop.

When you feel it coming on, try making a fist, sticking out the middle finger, and grabbing the middle finger with the other hand forming a fist around it.

Try bilateral stimulation when you feel it.

 

[Manwithnoname]

Physical activity with nasal breathing is breathing retraining. Especially if you don't lose it afterwards.

What has Peat said that you think is wrong on the subject of exercise? Exercise physiologists generally agree excess lactic exercise is a problem, don't they? And Peat has spoken in favour of meaningful activity, as it seems you do, and doing things to maintain muscle, etc. Just not excesses of meaningless or harmful excercise

It just seemed to me that ray peat is against exercise, generally. I mean he is against running. The only exercises he gave a thumbs up for were walking and concentric weightlifting. Or perhaps I am missing something he said. Didn't he say that running is ok as long as you don't exceed lactate threshold. And yes I would agree excess lactate in blood is not good. But lactate in itself is a fuel source and actually supports aerobic metabolism provided there is enough oxygen to convert lactate into co2. Have you ever heard of George Brooks work on lactate shuttle theory?