Hikikomori - Staying In All Day Playing Video Games

[bdawg]

interesting

if they had autism, what would be the evolutionary reason for that ?

what does autism protect and serve you for ?? It makes no sense.

Autism seems to be a congenital maladaptive brain trait

But as @DaveFoster mentioned, you can be pushed into autism-like conditions given the right environmental stresses

 

[InChristAlone]

It is not just playing video games, if you watch the video I posted, it is way more than a video game addiction. My son plays a lot of minecraft and roblox and I don't see it as harmful behavior at all. He is happy and healthy.

 

[johnwester130]

I agree.

They were noticing autism in the 1970s and the 1950s, well before video game

 

[AretnaP]

People (especially men) dropping out from society will become a more and more common occurrence. It's just inevitable.

 

[smith]

A lot of people consider being with company that doesn't understand them far more isolating than being alone

 

[Cirion]

At least for me, being a life-long video game addict, I can testify that video games are indeed a dopamine crutch when your dopamine levels are low. I find that when I'm healthier I crave video games less naturally. In fact I have barely touched a game in over a month or two now, and interestingly enough, I used to hate reading and now I read even more than I play video games. I dunno if I can speak for ALL people who play video games, but at least for this n=1 self experiment, my level of health is gauged by my desire or not to play videogames. My desire to be social doesn't crop up until I'm very healthy, which unfortunately I haven't yet gotten to that point as of yet. As one other poster said it, being social takes a lot of energy and so the mind doesn't tend to desire it until the body is very healthy (at least, in my experience).

 

[Steene]

It is not just playing video games, if you watch the video I posted, it is way more than a video game addiction. My son plays a lot of minecraft and roblox and I don't see it as harmful behavior at all. He is happy and healthy.

Of course it is not unhealthy especially not for kids. Saying playing video games is because you have low dopamine levels is simplicity and stupid. You have to differ between a lot of different genres and every genre attracts different kinds of personalities with different hormonal and neurotransmitter profiles. Novelty seeking behaviour like exploring places, stories and other things in a game is a high dopamine state. Relying on random generated outcomes where you get a reward in the end for doing tedious tasks THIS is a quick fix for a low dopamine state (games which are nothing more than gambling in disguise (mostly cheap smartphone games and MMOs)). Then there are competitive games which strongly rise your adrenaline and cortisol output because you are losing something in the moment you die in that game.

What do I want to say with that? You always chose your game of choice which suits you most in certain moments of life. There is no black and white in this.

 

[InChristAlone]

Of course it is not unhealthy especially not for kids. Saying playing video games is because you have low dopamine levels is simplicity and stupid. You have to differ between a lot of different genres and every genre attracts different kinds of personalities with different hormonal and neurotransmitter profiles. Novelty seeking behaviour like exploring places, stories and other things in a game is a high dopamine state. Relying on random generated outcomes where you get a reward in the end for doing tedious tasks THIS is a quick fix for a low dopamine state (games which are nothing more than gambling in disguise (mostly cheap smartphone games and MMOs)). Then there are competitive games which strongly rise your adrenaline and cortisol output because you are losing something in the moment you die in that game.

What do I want to say with that? You always chose your game of choice which suits you most in certain moments of life. There is no black and white in this.

I agree. My other son plays the violent shooter games and he is definitely the high adrenaline type. We are working on it.

 

[Jing]

A big problem with playing games all day is sitting down all day ... Games that bring out adrenaline is not going to be good either we shouldn't have adrenaline while just sitting down.

 

[Cirion]

Yes, those are the worst kinds of games. I avoid those generally like the plague now. I am a big offender because I love playing games on the hardest difficulty (Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep on Critical Difficulty anyone??? OMG hahaha)

In that game, I will never forget when I spent AN ENTIRE SATURDAY attempting to beat ONE BOSS (for KH nerds, the last boss for Terra) and the first boss took me almost 2 hours of attempts. Talk about stress hormones... lol

I still plan to probably buy Kingdom Hearts 3. But I probably will try to avoid the temptation to pump it up to Critical difficulty... lol

People (especially men) dropping out from society will become a more and more common occurrence. It's just inevitable.

Agreed. Endocrine levels will continue to drop from their already abysmal levels once 5G rolls out and poisons continue to infiltrate our foods and people become more dependent on technology and less and less on getting real sunlight, on top of the fact that incandescent light bulbs are getting banned which was one of the last bastions of getting any sort of healthy light. Sad that soon we'll basically have to go on the black market just to get incandescent light bulbs.

Am I the only one that feels like banning incandescent light bulbs and promoting extremely unhealthful light bulbs such as CFL and flourescant light bulbs is no accident but a planned attempt to make people even unhealthier?

Meanwhile, demonizing anyone who dares go against the status quo and suggest that EMF and lack of proper light is the source of their health problems, let's put that crazy person in a psych ward. Just look at the wikipedia entry for EHS (electrostatic hypersensitivity syndrome) and see how they consider EHS a psychotic disorder. Can't have anyone challenging the status quo now can we?

Oh and let's not forget the fact that everyone thinks CO2 causes global warming, so let's reduce the levels of CO2... oh whoops, CO2 is pro-metabolic, so we can't have a pro-metabolic gas in the atmosphere, so let's get rid of that while we're at it and use global warming as a smokescreen and like EMFs/light, call anyone who is a global warmer denier a quack and put them in a psycho ward as well...

Sorry for the somewhat un-related rant. The more I learn about things in society the more angry I get. I consider this righteous anger though like Jesus flipping the table in the temple lol

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Human beings use interaction to help paint the entire picture of reality as our ability to perceive has its limit. I notice I start acting weird and having more inner dialogue when I don’t hang out with people for several days in a row.

 

[lampofred]

The extreme population density of Tokyo causes a severe rise in serotonin, which caused this basically hibernation syndrine

 

[lampofred]

The extreme population density of Tokyo causes a severe rise in serotonin, which caused this basically hibernation syndrine

 

[tankasnowgod]

Am I the only one that feels like banning incandescent light bulbs and promoting extremely unhealthful light bulbs such as CFL and flourescant light bulbs is no accident but a planned attempt to make people even unhealthier?

Meanwhile, demonizing anyone who dares go against the status quo and suggest that EMF and lack of proper light is the source of their health problems, let's put that crazy person in a psych ward. Just look at the wikipedia entry for EHS (electrostatic hypersensitivity syndrome) and see how they consider EHS a psychotic disorder. Can't have anyone challenging the status quo now can we?

Oh and let's not forget the fact that everyone thinks CO2 causes global warming, so let's reduce the levels of CO2... oh whoops, CO2 is pro-metabolic, so we can't have a pro-metabolic gas in the atmosphere, so let's get rid of that while we're at it and use global warming as a smokescreen and like EMFs/light, call anyone who is a global warmer denier a quack and put them in a psycho ward as well...

Sorry for the somewhat un-related rant. The more I learn about things in society the more angry I get. I consider this righteous anger though like Jesus flipping the table in the temple lol

You certainly aren't the only one. I absolutely believe (and continue to see more and more evidence) that the majority of our lives are "planned" and things that we think are organic are organized beforehand. And yes, I think it's from people that are very sinister and evil (at least from our perspective). The so called "elites." From what I understand, they don't think very highly of us, seeing us as nothing more than eaters. But, I guess that's okay. I don't think very highly of them, and see them as nothing more than parasites.

(sorry if I start to sound random here) I think this "plan" stretches back centuries, at least. And has pretty much gone along to plan, correcting course whenever something throws it off. I don't know if these planners are actively looking to "harm" people, I think they just want to make the average person easy to control. But by the same token, they have no problem whatsoever harming anyone, if it achieves their end. If you are interested, William Guy Carr wrote a great book, "Pawns In The Game" where he dives deep into this global conspiracy.

As for these "planners," I don't think they are any smarter than the average person. If anything, they are much dumber. But they do have two big advantages- access to money and power that simply isn't available to the general public, and the ability to plan decades and centuries down the line, where most people don't even plan out tomorrow. I kind of think of them like the "Window Washer" example from The Mothman Prophecies-



I'm right there with ya in the righteous anger. The more I dig into high dose C recently, the more angry I get at how that treatment was obscured and every "test" was designed to fail. I'm even angrier how they tried to denigrate Linus Pauling, a great mind who I believe mainly wanted to help humanity. Still, the truth is self sustaining, and can never be destroyed, whereas a lie needs constant maintenance. It certainly doesn't mean that lies can't be powerful, however.

Getting back to lights, CFLs were always garbage. But some of the new soft white LEDs have quite a nice color spread, almost comparable to incandescents. Not only that, but LEDs don't waste heat like incandescents, and last years longer than incandescents ever would.

 

[Jib]

I'm a borderline "hikkikomori." However I prefer to spend most of my time reading on forums like this, other self-improvement things, and working out.

With the work I do, people can drop projects off here, I can do the work, and they can come pick it up and pay me.

My friend who is 70 years old has been doing the same kind of work (repair/restoration) for decades, and lives alone. He is divorced. He is not a "hikkikomori" but here is the point I'm making:

The social isolation/agoraphobia is the real kingpin here. I COULD play videogames all day if I wanted to, and I have done that a LOT in the past. But is a person who has a decent income because they lucked into being able to learn a trade that allows them to work from home any less of a hikkikomori if they don't have many (or any) healthy relationships, and are agoraphobic?

Many times lately I've felt like I've "given up" on life (less so since I started taking DHEA several days ago). I love my work and hobbies but the lack of socializing just makes it all seem pointless.

Community is everything. I think the Hikkikomori syndrome is a result of the breakdown in intergender dynamics, less people getting married and having kids, more promotion of sex "just for fun" with less emphasis on family building and family values. Trust me, I am not against free, wanton sex just for fun at all, and wish I had some of that myself.

But when I was in a long term relationship with my last girlfriend, I was the highest functioning I'd ever been. She was the only person I had in my life that pushed me to try new things, go to new places, meet new people, and also love and support me and encourage me to grow my business and better myself.

After we broke up I spiraled into a very deep depression and reverted back to my old ways, which you could call Hikkikomori. Staying inside all day, not talking to or hanging out with anyone, playing a lot of videogames, watching a lot of TV and movies. Whether I was doing that or working out and making music is beside the point. Videogames get a bad rap, but someone not integrating into society is simply not integrating no matter what they're doing, whether videogames or working out and reading books.

So in my experience it's all about socialization. When I get jobs in, I get motivated. I love it when people are happy with jobs I've done and I can see the smiles on their faces and how much a difference it's made for them.

But I don't get jobs in often because I don't advertise and nobody knows who I am. When people feel appreciated and supported and valued and wanted and desired, motivation rises. The major incentive is the social reward: status, respect, and above all, love/support/admiration/care. Feeling like your life and work is worth something to people and seeing it make a difference.

For me, my ex girlfriend was my lifeblood because I don't have a community like we all evolved to have: a tribe. It's a tough place to be. Co-dependent relationships are a result of weak communities with weak or non-existent bonds between neighbors and the village in general. Everyone is disconnected so when most people find a partner, they cling to them like a lifesaver.

I have been much more productive in the past. For me, it's a switch that flips: customers show up and I will be excited to meet the challenge. Or if anyone is interested in the music I make, my motivation to put real effort into it skyrockets thousands of times.

But being isolated and having no connections and feeling like all the skills I have are pointless? Back to Hikkikomori, like a defense mechanism, a turtle shell. Depressive, lonely, and using any media and substances to fill the biological void left from a lack of socialization.

Tobacco, marijuana, alcohol, sedative pills -- my usage of all of those skyrockets when I go for long periods of time without seeing or talking to anyone. Also how much I watch TV/movies. My sleep also gets completely and utterly disrupted and destroyed.

To be fair, even at my menial manual labor job I had for 5 years, I felt a sense of belonging. Just working in a retail stockroom. My boss was absolutely horrible though and I started having panic attacks every single day I'd go in just because of his yelling/swearing/verbal abuse. So getting another job has felt pretty offputting after I quit from there.

Normal, menial jobs can provide satisfaction in my experience. The people I worked with are what made it fun (except for my boss). Whether Hikkikomori have no work experience or bad work experiences can probably affect why they avoid work.

Personally I had to go to a rehabilitation facility after I got out of the mental hospital to help me find work. Had I not had a supervisor with me basically holding my hand at my first job for two weeks before I flew the coop and got the job and went by myself from then on....I don't think I ever would've had a job.

My social anxiety was so horrible that having a supervisor to help me get a job was the only thing that would help. I was not lazy, just absolutely terrified. For 5 years I did not call out of work a single time or miss a single day and I gave it my all every day. I think for a lot of people the resistance to work can be a result of social phobia/anxiety, not simply being lazy as a lot of people think. The reason I quit my job was I couldn't deal with my boss anymore, and in hindsight I should have complained to the higher-ups about his abusive behavior.

Social phobia/lack of assertiveness skills could also explain Hikkikomori syndrome, at least part of it. When you have no skills to navigate your way confidently through the world, EVERYTHING seems terrifying. I don't think anyone WANTS to lock themselves away in a room for their whole lives, and if they were completely honest with themselves, they would probably admit if they could have their ideal, perfect life, it would not look like the one they're living.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are exceptions.

 

[mipp]

I find that when I'm healthier I crave video games less naturally. In fact I have barely touched a game in over a month or two now, and interestingly enough, I used to hate reading and now I read even more than I play video games. I dunno if I can speak for ALL people who play video games, but at least for this n=1 self experiment, my level of health is gauged by my desire or not to play videogames.

Same here, but the other way around. If only I had the energy to waste on a video game like I used to... and all that novelty-seeking behavior and high dopamine that is necessary to be willing to learn and explore a new game ...that would mean I'm truly healing, lol. All I can do now is play a dumb shooter for half an hour maybe once a week and feel exhausted afterwards.

 

[johnwester130]

I'm a borderline "hikkikomori." However I prefer to spend most of my time reading on forums like this, other self-improvement things, and working out.

With the work I do, people can drop projects off here, I can do the work, and they can come pick it up and pay me.

My friend who is 70 years old has been doing the same kind of work (repair/restoration) for decades, and lives alone. He is divorced. He is not a "hikkikomori" but here is the point I'm making:

The social isolation/agoraphobia is the real kingpin here. I COULD play videogames all day if I wanted to, and I have done that a LOT in the past. But is a person who has a decent income because they lucked into being able to learn a trade that allows them to work from home any less of a hikkikomori if they don't have many (or any) healthy relationships, and are agoraphobic?

Many times lately I've felt like I've "given up" on life (less so since I started taking DHEA several days ago). I love my work and hobbies but the lack of socializing just makes it all seem pointless.

Community is everything. I think the Hikkikomori syndrome is a result of the breakdown in intergender dynamics, less people getting married and having kids, more promotion of sex "just for fun" with less emphasis on family building and family values. Trust me, I am not against free, wanton sex just for fun at all, and wish I had some of that myself.

But when I was in a long term relationship with my last girlfriend, I was the highest functioning I'd ever been. She was the only person I had in my life that pushed me to try new things, go to new places, meet new people, and also love and support me and encourage me to grow my business and better myself.

After we broke up I spiraled into a very deep depression and reverted back to my old ways, which you could call Hikkikomori. Staying inside all day, not talking to or hanging out with anyone, playing a lot of videogames, watching a lot of TV and movies. Whether I was doing that or working out and making music is beside the point. Videogames get a bad rap, but someone not integrating into society is simply not integrating no matter what they're doing, whether videogames or working out and reading books.

So in my experience it's all about socialization. When I get jobs in, I get motivated. I love it when people are happy with jobs I've done and I can see the smiles on their faces and how much a difference it's made for them.

But I don't get jobs in often because I don't advertise and nobody knows who I am. When people feel appreciated and supported and valued and wanted and desired, motivation rises. The major incentive is the social reward: status, respect, and above all, love/support/admiration/care. Feeling like your life and work is worth something to people and seeing it make a difference.

For me, my ex girlfriend was my lifeblood because I don't have a community like we all evolved to have: a tribe. It's a tough place to be. Co-dependent relationships are a result of weak communities with weak or non-existent bonds between neighbors and the village in general. Everyone is disconnected so when most people find a partner, they cling to them like a lifesaver.

I have been much more productive in the past. For me, it's a switch that flips: customers show up and I will be excited to meet the challenge. Or if anyone is interested in the music I make, my motivation to put real effort into it skyrockets thousands of times.

But being isolated and having no connections and feeling like all the skills I have are pointless? Back to Hikkikomori, like a defense mechanism, a turtle shell. Depressive, lonely, and using any media and substances to fill the biological void left from a lack of socialization.

Tobacco, marijuana, alcohol, sedative pills -- my usage of all of those skyrockets when I go for long periods of time without seeing or talking to anyone. Also how much I watch TV/movies. My sleep also gets completely and utterly disrupted and destroyed.

To be fair, even at my menial manual labor job I had for 5 years, I felt a sense of belonging. Just working in a retail stockroom. My boss was absolutely horrible though and I started having panic attacks every single day I'd go in just because of his yelling/swearing/verbal abuse. So getting another job has felt pretty offputting after I quit from there.

Normal, menial jobs can provide satisfaction in my experience. The people I worked with are what made it fun (except for my boss). Whether Hikkikomori have no work experience or bad work experiences can probably affect why they avoid work.

Personally I had to go to a rehabilitation facility after I got out of the mental hospital to help me find work. Had I not had a supervisor with me basically holding my hand at my first job for two weeks before I flew the coop and got the job and went by myself from then on....I don't think I ever would've had a job.

My social anxiety was so horrible that having a supervisor to help me get a job was the only thing that would help. I was not lazy, just absolutely terrified. For 5 years I did not call out of work a single time or miss a single day and I gave it my all every day. I think for a lot of people the resistance to work can be a result of social phobia/anxiety, not simply being lazy as a lot of people think. The reason I quit my job was I couldn't deal with my boss anymore, and in hindsight I should have complained to the higher-ups about his abusive behavior.

Social phobia/lack of assertiveness skills could also explain Hikkikomori syndrome, at least part of it. When you have no skills to navigate your way confidently through the world, EVERYTHING seems terrifying. I don't think anyone WANTS to lock themselves away in a room for their whole lives, and if they were completely honest with themselves, they would probably admit if they could have their ideal, perfect life, it would not look like the one they're living.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are exceptions.

interesting

what supplements and prescriptions are you on now, if any?

 

[Jib]

interesting

what supplements and prescriptions are you on now, if any?

I was on Rexulti around the time I wrote this if I remember right. Was in 2019.

Currently no prescriptions except propranolol and Xanax which I only use very rarely.

Supplements these days:

Creatine, beta alanine, taurine, sodium ascorbate, active B complex, D3, K2, occasionally Lugol's, occasionally methylene blue, occasionally zinc and selenium

 

[Amazoniac]

- Hikikomori: Multidimensional understanding, assessment, and future international perspectives

"[..]some individuals that may fit into the category of hikikomori have a variety of illnesses and conditions. In other words, it may be said that the argument over whether a particular person has hikikomori is not all that meaningful. Rather what is important to keep in mind realistically is that (i) a variety of people as a reaction to stress may present in a 'condition of hikikomori,' (ii) separate from the existence or nonexistence of mental illness in the narrow sense, the fact that the condition is prolonged, and (iii) as a general characteristic of hikikomori, it is often considered the case that even before understanding the detailed nature of an individual and their psychological state it is often the case that it is necessary to initiate some kind of aid.[14]"

"[..]we believe that hikikomori can be regarded as a reaction to stress that may present in a 'condition of hikikomori' and that it might be separate from the existence or nonexistence of mental illness in the narrow sense. Some types of hikikomori might be a particular kind of coping strategy, which is similar to an avoidance strategy in response to stressful situations involving social situations and social judgments. In this sense, these types of hikikomori may not be a disorder in themselves. Yet, at the same time, because of their prolonged condition, they can eventually turn themselves into a disorder. We believe this way of understanding the hikikomori phenomenon helps to clarify the nature of the phenomenon to some extent in contrast to simply treating it as a disorder in itself or as asymptom of another disorder, like autism."

"Until now, no biological interventions have been investigated in the treatment of hikikomori. As inflammation and oxidative stress are possible contributing factors of hikikomori,[78] anti-inflammatory and/or anti-oxidative agents may help to improve hikikomori conditions. We have previously reported that minocycline, an antibiotic drug with a suppressing effect on microglia, can change social decision-making in times of strong social stress[139–141]; thus, such agents targeting microglial activation may also work for solving hikikomori behaviors. Clinical trials are warranted to clarify the effectiveness of such drugs in the future."​

 

[keytothecity]

Hikkomori seems like a normal response to an unhealthy environment to me. Moving outside of the urban dystopias would be preferable obviously, but at least these people get to stay in their warm bed while the mindless drones swarm out to the overcrowded subways in the morning to eagerly wagecuck and waste their lives away as well