Tribalism In The Body

Integra

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
118
"When a tribal member accomplishes something of value to others, the other members automatically share an “energy reward.” It’s not unusual for a tribal member to “live off the power” of another tribal member who has earned a public reputation. “What’s in a name?” we sometimes ask, scornfully. But a great deal is in a name—the energy of pride or shame that is transmitted from a person’s first chakra. Violating tribal justice, on the other hand, can cause a loss of power to an individual’s energy system—so much so that one may feel permanently “ungrounded” and have difficulty forming connections to other people."

"The tribe usually believes that there is a “humanly logical” reason for why things happen as they do. Such beliefs cause terrible grief. Some people futilely spend years trying to discover “the reason” they had to endure certain painful events; when they cannot find a satisfactory reason, they end up living in a fog—unable to move forward yet unable to release the past. Although tribal law is necessary in order to maintain social order, it does not reflect the reasoning of heaven. [. . .] If we can view our tribal circumstances as “arranged” to promote spiritual advancement, not physical comfort, we can consider painful events as being essential to our personal development rather than as punishments for our actions."

"When tribal justice obstructs our spiritual advancement, we need to free ourselves from its authority over our individual power of choice. This challenge is one of the most difficult associated with the first chakra because it often requires a physical separation from our family or from a group of people to which we have become bonded."

C. Myss - Anatomy of the Spirit
 

Thoushant

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
211
C. Myss - Anatomy of the Spirit

Thank you Integra,

I've just been looking for how tribes deal with heavy emotions of sorrow and resentment, seems like this book is a good start.

For the analytical who can't grasp the bigger picture:
We can substitute the different words used for more acceptable western social constructs and it isn't so much BS anymore.

"transfer of power" is pride. It's human nature to name drop acquaintances higher in social rank to temporary be the same rank. You can follow seemingly endless pointless conversations, only to realise it's about "power transfer" or who gets to be prideful and who gets to feel guilty. "social hierarchy"

For the first chakra: It's the pelvis and sacrum's position, which ultimately decides how your lordosis and kyphosis is. The posture is scientificially proven to be a marker of social success: prideful and successful stand tall, lessend kyphosis and lordosis, shameful, anxiety etc etc ->kypotpic, head down etc etc.
It loses the integrated magical explanation of the originial post, but this is what it is in analytical terms..
 
OP
Integra

Integra

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
118
I've just been looking for how tribes deal with heavy emotions of sorrow and resentment, seems like this book is a good start.

When you say tribe, do you have some specific social organization in mind (e.g. family, cohort, generation, nation)?
When you say deal, do you mean instantaneously, over a long stretch of time, over several generations? Can you specify what you mean by deal?

"transfer of power" is pride. It's human nature to name drop acquaintances higher in social rank to temporary be the same rank. You can follow seemingly endless pointless conversations, only to realise it's about "power transfer" or who gets to be prideful and who gets to feel guilty. "social hierarchy"

I’ve been thinking about pride a lot recently—for example, K. Horney (in Neurosis and Human Growth) says that behind every neurotic, there is a source of secret pride—so things they are (sometimes only subconsciously) proud of, things that helped them satisfy neurotic needs (which they developed as replacement for real needs, when their real needs couldn’t be met).

All of that got me thinking—is pride always bad or a ‘sin’ as in Christian thought?
What are the things in one’s life one should be (is okay to be) genuinely proud of?

I know the answer varies from person to person, but I’m still struggling to realize the distinction between 1) what I’m really (secretly) proud of but maybe shouldn’t be proud of (due to neurotic dysfunction), 2) what I think I should be proud of (due to social conditioning), and 3), once we've cleared stages 1) and 2), what I’m genuinely proud of.

This is assuming there is no third category between pride and shame, one that represents a balance of Yin/Yang qualitative, if I may go back to my metaphorical mambo-jumbo, not to cause unnecessary exasperation :)

So, how does genuine and legitimate (tribal) pride physically feel in the body?
It is not just happiness for other people, is it? It must be happiness for others + __something else__.

What if I feel proud over the accomplishments of someone I care for – is that an inappropriate emotional reaction, if it’s not tainted by a desire to brag or “show the world” what “we” (members of the same tribe) are made of, so to speak?

For the first chakra: It's the pelvis and sacrum's position, which ultimately decides how your lordosis and kyphosis is. The posture is scientificially proven to be a marker of social success: prideful and successful stand tall, lessend kyphosis and lordosis, shameful, anxiety etc etc ->kypotpic, head down etc etc.
It loses the integrated magical explanation of the originial post, but this is what it is in analytical terms..

Oh wow, I just made that connection. So then if proper posture (neither lordosis nor kyphosis) of the pelvis is assumed, it might be easier to heal ‘first chakra’ (single quotes for the anti-metaphorical thinkers) issues such as national identity, family identity, professional identity, etc.

Except that (hehe) to even try to assume a good posture, I would for example have to think about a time when I was proud of something, which, as I showed above, doesn’t come easily. I'm confused.
 
Last edited:
OP
Integra

Integra

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
118
Is this related to family constellation therapy?

I had to google the term to see what you're referring to and no, to my mind, there's no direct connection between the two, even though I'm sure you could draw analogical connections between them.
 

LUH 3417

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,990
I had to google the term to see what you're referring to and no, to my mind, there's no direct connection between the two, even though I'm sure you could draw analogical connections between them.
Very interesting. What is the source of this? Do you read much anthropology or social theory?
 
OP
Integra

Integra

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
118
This is a book by Caroline Myss, who combined concepts from several religious school of thought to talk about psychological development. I'm interested in metaphorical and metaphysical explanations of health, or if you will, "higher-level" cause(s) of pain, suffering, and disease. It's only a hobby, so I don't know much, but I read a lot of Carl Rogers, C.G. Jung, some (not much) Freud, Erich Fromm, and Wilhelm Reich. From social theory, I read Bourdieu (Language & Symbolic Power), which I think is an incredible account of social power play we face on a daily basis. And then some philosophy - The Book by Allan Watts, Parker J. Palmer's Hidden Wholness, David Whyte The Three Marriages - the first being the philosophical background of the Mobius strip (infinity sign) view on life, and then the second are (I think) two practical applications of it in teaching/group work/conflict mediation (Palmer) and personal life (D. Whyte). Oh, and I also like everything by Alexander Lowen :) :) :)
 

Thoushant

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
211
When you say tribe, do you have some specific social organization in mind (e.g. family, cohort, generation, nation)?
When you say deal, do you mean instantaneously, over a long stretch of time, over several generations? Can you specify what you mean by deal?



I’ve been thinking about pride a lot recently—for example, K. Horney (in Neurosis and Human Growth) says that behind every neurotic, there is a source of secret pride—so things they are (sometimes only subconsciously) proud of, things that helped them satisfy neurotic needs (which they developed as replacement for real needs, when their real needs couldn’t be met).

All of that got me thinking—is pride always bad or a ‘sin’ as in Christian thought?
What are the things in one’s life one should be (is okay to be) genuinely proud of?

I know the answer varies from person to person, but I’m still struggling to realize the distinction between 1) what I’m really (secretly) proud of but maybe shouldn’t be proud of (due to neurotic dysfunction), 2) what I think I should be proud of (due to social conditioning), and 3), once we've cleared stages 1) and 2), what I’m genuinely proud of.

This is assuming there is no third category between pride and shame, one that represents a balance of Yin/Yang qualitative, if I may go back to my metaphorical mambo-jumbo, not to cause unnecessary exasperation :)

So, how does genuine and legitimate (tribal) pride physically feel in the body?
It is not just happiness for other people, is it? It must be happiness for others + __something else__.

What if I feel proud over the accomplishments of someone I care for – is that an inappropriate emotional reaction, if it’s not tainted by a desire to brag or “show the world” what “we” (members of the same tribe) are made of, so to speak?



Oh wow, I just made that connection. So then if proper posture (neither lordosis nor kyphosis) of the pelvis is assumed, it might be easier to heal ‘first chakra’ (single quotes for the anti-metaphorical thinkers) issues such as national identity, family identity, professional identity, etc.

Except that (hehe) to even try to assume a good posture, I would for example have to think about a time when I was proud of something, which, as I showed above, doesn’t come easily. I'm confused.


What I mean by tribes is solely the cultures that haven't been influenced by modern day "meaninglessness" . Cultures that still have roots in old wisdom they haven't abandoned for "you are depressed or anxious" or trying to expain it biochemically. It's like you put it: Problems are viewed as an journey to self-development.
just personally "dealing"/"overcoming"/"working through" heavy emotions. It's mainly for my own sake, although generational sorrow seems interesting, in lights of resentment/bitterness can be taught off from parents "generationally".

of all emotions, pride has been the most vague for me, so I just recently stumbled upon this, which made so much sense for me. And with that in mind, K. Horney qoute explains it perfectly
Pride

I think I do have bouts of neurotic behavior, and K Horney relates it to pride is intersting. As it probably started around the same time I refused my pride/didn't deal with it healthily.
Lack of healthy pride, rise of negative emotions of not getting the pride, sticking to some sort of well-estabilished source of pride and abusing it. For me it translates to feeling resentful, impulsely attacking and then later dealing with guilt.. and keep spiraling.

Interesting questions on pride in regards to christianty and what you allow yourself. I was raised christian catholic, my understanding of it is you don't attack or belittle others because of pride, so "integrated" "isolated" pride, not dependent on others' misfortune(But having been part of Christian gatherings, I'm the exception to the rule lol ).
In a similar manner: I have friends who gets their pride acknowledged by trying to make me envious or jealous(or suddenly their new found pride allows them to belittle parts of my life) such awkward moments, I try not to show envy, just acknowledge...It's kinda hilarious and sad. ..It does get to you after a while though.

It seems pride is something we acknowledge in each other for it to strengthen, so the things you ponder about: If you feel prideful of something, but can't get it acknowledged I can see how eventually it leads to trouble(and in that case seperating from your "tribe" or finding new support could be the answer, when your path diverges, or assessing if neuroticim is involved?).
I think the various support groups (AA etc) can help in it's a community that knows where you are, something that can be dangerous to share with common community, and then give praise as you progress out of it, So in the same manner, It really shows how "how you tell your story" is important to get the pride you think you deserve.

What I hold true of emotions is: there are 6 basic as Paul Ekman puts it. More complex emotions are mixture of those. And then everyone can feel a mixed bag of complex emotions mixed together, so I don't see the point of trying to specify what the concentrate drop of pride should feel like. Depending on the circumstance, anger, fear, hurt etc etc might be present to give that unique personal experience.

I think feeling pride for another individual is harmless(..probably benefical as it strengthen bonds, shows appreciation) as in it's some form of empathy, but I recall from my childhood how isolation/low selfworth can get people to interpret that as someone stealing the flame(It's MY pride), in that case giving acknowledgment for the person, might be better than "running off with it".
In my case of someone else feeling pride for me: My mom was prideful of who I was, and my dad didn't show much spoken appreciation. Often at dinnertable it felt like she was attacking my dad based on her feeling pride of me(she was trying to get him to be more verbal I guess, but it backfired on me, is my pov), so complex issue. probably depends on the person you feel prideful of, and what they are comfortable with how you use that pride.

Intersting thought of getting the pelvis neutral: I agree as in achieving a healthy posture, and then looking out for what mood puts it out of balance can provide insight into what specifically the issue is. Then learning to have balanced posture despite the issue in mind, is what is considered "healed"?
Sort of being able to carry the load, which reminds me of kanye west in Jesus walks "the only thing that I pray is my feet don't fail me now". or the "I pray not for a lesser burden, but broader shoulders" or "I ask not for an easier path, but for stronger feet"
 

Xisca

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
2,273
Location
Canary Spain
It loses the integrated magical explanation of the originial post, but this is what it is in analytical terms..
Well said, some people need the magic and some need the analytical trancript!

This text is hard to read, but if I translate it into polyvagal theory terms, it makes absolute sense.

I advise incredule people who might fear this is bs, to go further with curiosity, this text is correct.
 

Xisca

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
2,273
Location
Canary Spain
Oh wow, I just made that connection. So then if proper posture (neither lordosis nor kyphosis) of the pelvis is assumed, it might be easier to heal ‘first chakra’ (single quotes for the anti-metaphorical thinkers) issues such as national identity, family identity, professional identity, etc.

Except that (hehe) to even try to assume a good posture, I would for example have to think about a time when I was proud of something, which, as I showed above, doesn’t come easily. I'm confused.
Look into Moshe Feldenkrais work and technique, it is wonderful! It is also related to ANS, as no posture can be maintained when not thinking about it, unless it becomes integrated.
 

Xisca

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
2,273
Location
Canary Spain
All of that got me thinking—is pride always bad or a ‘sin’ as in Christian thought?
What are the things in one’s life one should be (is okay to be) genuinely proud of?
Some lenguages have 2 words for "pride", one is the positive good one, and the other is the "sin", as it means feeling superior, thus thinking another is inferior!

Also, proud should be momentary, it is like being very happy of a success, so that you want to work again at doing what you were proud of.

When we are all the time proud of something, it is a veeeeery good indication ...of a problem. It just means our mind is blocked all the time in this form of thinking "this is good, this is better than...". I do not mean bad... this is just a way of our cortex brain. It makes a balance for something that is internally not balanced.
 

Sunrise

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
59
Sitting, as un T'ai chi or communiste circles, may bring a funtional sparc to the conversation for therapeutic interventions, reenactments.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom