Short Term PFS With Complications. But Getting By!

coppersocks

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
18
Hi all, lurker of a couple of months here and participator for a couple weeks. It's probably about time I introduced myself.

I'm a healthy thirty year old male with no previous health conditions, that is until I took the 5-AR inhibitor finasteride for four months.
Since getting off fin just under four months ago I've dealt with numerous comings and goings of the various symptoms that you are probably all aware of by now; extremely low libido, erectile dysfunction, insomnia, anxiety, you name it..
Anyway I found CDNut's protocol of herb cycling and various other suggestions and have been doing that for nearly three months now with seemingly good effect. At this stage my symptoms have reduced significantly and I can get through my day fine normally and usually without thinking about it. Libido is still low but that is supposedly the most difficult thing to get to return to normal function and I imagine that it will fall into place only when everything else has.

EDIT: I've deleted the rest form here as it wasn't much of a 'meet and greet'. And I'm moving my question to a different part of the forum. So on that note I just would like to say hi to everyone, I look forward to talking to you all. I may expand on my myself in this post again after I've posted my question in the advice section.
 
Last edited:

JoeKool

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
299
Sup! Got your own thread going here!!! :)

Yea we're getting by... this place is amazing... you'll get answers... you'll get advice... and, like me, you'll get results... seems to take some time but I see a light at the end...

ttyl
 
OP
C

coppersocks

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
18
Hey everyone, I said I'd make a more detailed introductory post at some point so now that my hectic college schedule has finally ended for the summer here it is.
As stated above I have PFS but have not suffered from it for very long. Though many of my symptoms have retracted somewhat; particularly the brain fog and fatigue, I'm still left with others and continue to experience some symptoms that are seemingly unique to my case or at least very rare in others.

Physically
At a glance I would seem to be an extremely fit and healthy young man. I have a history of body building, playing football (soccer to many of you) and some calisthenic work. I look extremely fit and unlike many PFS suffers I now have very little issue with retaining or growing muscle. I lost much muscle during my initial crash though this may be attributed to my complete lack of appetite at the time and the extreme fatigue and listlessness keeping me from any kind of consistent exercise routine. Since going back to the gym however I have now gained all of my muscle back and hover around the 72.5kg (159lbs) mark (I'm 5'7") with a body fat percentage of roughly 10-11% based on past measurements.
This however is a shallow assessment of my overall health and I have been left with many issues to fix.
Like many past finasteride users I now have an extremely low libido. I rarely get an erection without much effort or some pornography. I have now not masturbated or been with a partner in two weeks and have no real desire to do so in comparison to my old vigorous self.When I do there is certainly less pleasure and I rarely get the feeling of needing to get off. This is a topic that has already been extensively covered by others on this forum so I will not get bogged down here. There seems to be a path to recovery, albeit a long and slow one so I will attempt to keep learning and putting one foot in front of the other in this regard.

As I mentioned previously in another thread, many of my veins have become much more prominent all over my body. I do lift weights four or five times a week so this comes with the territory somewhat however the rate at which this has happened and continues to do so would suggest that there is an underlying cause, probably hormonal in nature if I were to hazard a guess. Essentially what seems to happen is I get an unusual throbbing pain- almost like a spasm- in any given area that can last for an hour to a day and which results in the appearance a bulging or at least a more visible blue vein. Over the past two months this has happened on the tops of my feet, calves, thighs, bicep, hips, shoulder, chest, back of hands, palms of hands, fingers and most worryingly my genitals. I now have two more prominent veins running the shaft of my penis that sprawl out and connect with smaller, darker veins running between them. I have also developed varicocele on my left testicle and also dark veins running along my scrotum skin.

The skin on the palms of my hands and fingers now appears much thinner than before and has taken on a strange complexion. It now appears pink and blotchy and at times yellowey, particularly where I have calluses. The thin blue veins under my skin are much more visible than before though they aren't bulging.

I now have quite bad tinnitus (I had this before due to constantly listening to my music to loud with earphones but it has certainly gotten worse) and have developed visual snow. For those that don't know what that is, it essentially looks like static from an old TV screen that kind of overlays everything that I see. When I first crashed I would get a blue pin prick of light swirling in my vision for a second or two every day or so but now if I stare at the sky or a white background of any kind it is almost like viewing sperm through a microscope, a lot of white dots shooting around in random directions. My night vision has dramatically decreased as the VS appears almost orange or yellow in colour and can make it very difficult to differentiate between objects. Going from light to dark can be a nightmare as the residual effects from the light can make me near blind for a minute or so whilst I adjust. This obviously happened before and is natural but it is now much, much worse. To top this off my eye floaters have become much worse also, making my vision quite "soupy" at times, particularly early in the day. I can't claim any evidence of this my I would say the reason to this could be linked to my worsening veins.

This past few weeks my hair has began shedding again. Finasteride did seem to put a stop to that though it's effects in this regard seem to have finally worn off.

My sleep is still very hit or miss, often I wake several times through out the night.

I seem to get occasional heart palpitation.



Mentally
This past four or five months have been a struggle and can easily be classed as the worst period of my life, however I think I can stretch this back further to a particularly emotionally difficult year before hand that likely caused my fin crash to happen at such an early stage whilst on the drug. I broke up with my long term girlfriend during Easter last year and by summers end I was very depressed and having social anxiety, something that I had never really experienced since my teen years. I found very little enjoyment in anything and looking back there was obviously some hormonal issues. In October I went on fin and I was feeling pretty great for much of the time. However in early January I developed very bad anxiety and I would often wake up with an almost electric shock in my chest and into a panicked state. This continued until my crash late January.
Initially I suffered elongated patches of major brain fog, suicidal depression, derealisation and anxiety. These mental states seem to have lifted for the most part however my on going physical symptoms often leave me feeling very depressed, despondent and dissonant with outside world. Whenever I feel a new vein "coming on" I feel listless and powerless in my ability to prevent it, I really do feel ravaged my this infliction somewhat, not knowing when or if ever it will leave me be to heal. The one solace I had during the early months was the thought that if I beat this thing at least it wouldn't leave upon me any physical scars however with every new vein that has appeared and with the onset of the very difficult to shake VS and tinnitus I now realise that this may not be the case. Visual snoiw in itself can leave one feeling very disconnected from the world and this can bring about it's own anxieties and brain fog. I yearn to be able to solely focus on the recovery of my libido but I suppose it's not to be.

Obviously it can be difficult to stay present and focused through out the day when dealing with such anxiety about ones health and this I feel is a massive obstacle for me to overcome given the brains ability to help one heal.


What I am doing

CDNut's PFS protocol

As stated above I have been doing CDNuts protocol, this included a 10 day juice fast and now I am taking a rotating cycle of adaptogenic herbs which I will list further down. I am also taking cold showers daily and alternating between meditation and Wim Hoff's breathing exercises. Also I am abstaining from masturbation and pornography for as long as I can.

Diet
I have always ate somewhat healthily, sticking to a mostly paleo esq diet. I have now incorporated a liter of OJ into my diet and more milk. since reading about PUFAS here I have looked to eliminate them from my diet. My diet mainly consists of grass fed beef or lamb, eggs, fruit, milk, coffee, cheese, green vegetables like spinach or broccoli, oats, occasional liver, some chicken, onions, garlic and potatoes and I supplement with sugar. I do have a protein shake a day also.

Supplements
5000ui Vitamin D
250mg Magnesium
150mg l-Theanine
Venalex (Diosmin 450mg and Hesperidin 50mg) for veinus health
I also take 500mg niacinamide on occasion though I think that I read somewhere it may counteract the effects of flavonoids so have stopped for now.
I was taking glycine but need to order more

I've just received Great Lakes gelatin and will look to have that with every meal.

Daily I cycle one of the following list by their recommended dosage:
Fo Ti
Butea Superba
Cordyceps
Tribulus
Ashwaganda
Maca Root
Horny Goat Weed
Catuaba Bark
Muira Puama
Siberian Ginseng
Royal Jelly
Rhodiola
Tongkat Ali
Suma Root

I also have the following ideal lab products, though I have stopped using them on my rat for now until I get a clearer picture of what is causing it's issues:
5a-DHP, Andosterone, Pansterone, Tyronene, Vit K, Diamant.

What I am looking to do
I have ordered a course of R-Andro as this appears to be high on the list of many PFS sufferers in getting their libido back. I do worry however that it may have other unwanted effects on my other symptoms so I will have to watch for that.

I am seriously considering buying the Combo Light form Red Light Man. I think that my thyroid and liver may be seriously compromised and have read good things about the effects that red light can have on the glands and organs. I'm considering even using it on my eyes and brain to see if it could have a beneficial effect of VS, eye floaters and tinnitus.

I am looking to take up surfing, I live in an excellent area for it and being in the sun (well somewhat, as sun is never guaranteed in Ireland) and the meditative aspect of surfing I feel could be good for my mental and hormonal state.

I plan on spending much more time outdoors in general. I am doing a computing course in college and this whole experience has left me with an extremely negative associative reaction to computers in general as they seem to increase my brain fog and visual snow.

I'm going backpacking to South America for August. This has been booked since November and was initially planned as a bit of a party trip with a couple of friends, though looking at my physical and mental state now I don't think that a month of drink and some drugs will do my recovery any good at all. I will now look to gain as much as possible from the experience and hopefully avoid those pitfalls. Being in the sun can't hurt too!

That's about everything I suppose. If anyone has any suggestions, tips advice on anything that I said (or even just wants a chat!) then I'm all ears. Particularly if it can potentially aid in the alleviation of any of the symptoms that I listed above. Thanks for reading my post.
 

JoeKool

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
299
Hey Coppersocks

To offer some advice from what I'm dealing with, I've always been big on setting the foundation at sleep time for recovery, particularly from a bodybuilding perspective... i'm sure you know, the pre-bed shake should fuel muscle repair during sleep... you don't grow in the gym, you grow in bed... it's in this vain that I focused my start of recovery... looking for what increased 5ar overnight & GABA for nocturnal erections and testosterone / growth hormone pulses... I believe with a full night's REM sleep full of hormone pulses and hopefully nocturnal erections, i think recovery is started...

I like glycine before bed, 6G worked... I also like pine pollen before bed, 3 tablespoons for the erections. I can describe how to check for nocturnal erections in a pm

I think if you end up dealing with any anxiety issues regarding R-Andro, don't rule out a before bed dosage , as you could possibly sleep through any issues while gaining the benefits of the DHT conversion. Androsterone from ideal labs as well could be used for the same reason. I like everything else you're taking

You're definitely experiencing many side affects... I haven't had the vision issues, but some of what you dealt with I realized I dealt with too , after reading your description... can you check the refresh rate on the computer you're using in college? Make sure it's not low and flickering bad...

The trip to South America may help you... if you get a round of R-Andro in, and bounce back decently prior to August... a mind clearing trip could refresh your spirits... I would work at bringing some liver protection pills like Milk Thistle or Tudca , maybe even a cranberry pill to flush the kidneys too... swanson pills online has good prices on those.

Keep us posted.. I need to post some updates on mine... I think you posted on mine and then deleted it?
 

harry poter

New Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
1
Hey everyone, I said I'd make a more detailed introductory post at some point so now that my hectic college schedule has finally ended for the summer here it is.
As stated above I have PFS but have not suffered from it for very long. Though many of my symptoms have retracted somewhat; particularly the brain fog and fatigue, I'm still left with others and continue to experience some symptoms that are seemingly unique to my case or at least very rare in others.

Physically
At a glance I would seem to be an extremely fit and healthy young man. I have a history of body building, playing football (soccer to many of you) and some calisthenic work. I look extremely fit and unlike many PFS suffers I now have very little issue with retaining or growing muscle. I lost much muscle during my initial crash though this may be attributed to my complete lack of appetite at the time and the extreme fatigue and listlessness keeping me from any kind of consistent exercise routine. Since going back to the gym however I have now gained all of my muscle back and hover around the 72.5kg (159lbs) mark (I'm 5'7") with a body fat percentage of roughly 10-11% based on past measurements.
This however is a shallow assessment of my overall health and I have been left with many issues to fix.
Like many past finasteride users I now have an extremely low libido. I rarely get an erection without much effort or some pornography. I have now not masturbated or been with a partner in two weeks and have no real desire to do so in comparison to my old vigorous self.When I do there is certainly less pleasure and I rarely get the feeling of needing to get off. This is a topic that has already been extensively covered by others on this forum so I will not get bogged down here. There seems to be a path to recovery, albeit a long and slow one so I will attempt to keep learning and putting one foot in front of the other in this regard.

As I mentioned previously in another thread, many of my veins have become much more prominent all over my body. I do lift weights four or five times a week so this comes with the territory somewhat however the rate at which this has happened and continues to do so would suggest that there is an underlying cause, probably hormonal in nature if I were to hazard a guess. Essentially what seems to happen is I get an unusual throbbing pain- almost like a spasm- in any given area that can last for an hour to a day and which results in the appearance a bulging or at least a more visible blue vein. Over the past two months this has happened on the tops of my feet, calves, thighs, bicep, hips, shoulder, chest, back of hands, palms of hands, fingers and most worryingly my genitals. I now have two more prominent veins running the shaft of my penis that sprawl out and connect with smaller, darker veins running between them. I have also developed varicocele on my left testicle and also dark veins running along my scrotum skin.

The skin on the palms of my hands and fingers now appears much thinner than before and has taken on a strange complexion. It now appears pink and blotchy and at times yellowey, particularly where I have calluses. The thin blue veins under my skin are much more visible than before though they aren't bulging.

I now have quite bad tinnitus (I had this before due to constantly listening to my music to loud with earphones but it has certainly gotten worse) and have developed visual snow. For those that don't know what that is, it essentially looks like static from an old TV screen that kind of overlays everything that I see. When I first crashed I would get a blue pin prick of light swirling in my vision for a second or two every day or so but now if I stare at the sky or a white background of any kind it is almost like viewing sperm through a microscope, a lot of white dots shooting around in random directions. My night vision has dramatically decreased as the VS appears almost orange or yellow in colour and can make it very difficult to differentiate between objects. Going from light to dark can be a nightmare as the residual effects from the light can make me near blind for a minute or so whilst I adjust. This obviously happened before and is natural but it is now much, much worse. To top this off my eye floaters have become much worse also, making my vision quite "soupy" at times, particularly early in the day. I can't claim any evidence of this my I would say the reason to this could be linked to my worsening veins.

This past few weeks my hair has began shedding again. Finasteride did seem to put a stop to that though it's effects in this regard seem to have finally worn off.

My sleep is still very hit or miss, often I wake several times through out the night.

I seem to get occasional heart palpitation.



Mentally
This past four or five months have been a struggle and can easily be classed as the worst period of my life, however I think I can stretch this back further to a particularly emotionally difficult year before hand that likely caused my fin crash to happen at such an early stage whilst on the drug. I broke up with my long term girlfriend during Easter last year and by summers end I was very depressed and having social anxiety, something that I had never really experienced since my teen years. I found very little enjoyment in anything and looking back there was obviously some hormonal issues. In October I went on fin and I was feeling pretty great for much of the time. However in early January I developed very bad anxiety and I would often wake up with an almost electric shock in my chest and into a panicked state. This continued until my crash late January.
Initially I suffered elongated patches of major brain fog, suicidal depression, derealisation and anxiety. These mental states seem to have lifted for the most part however my on going physical symptoms often leave me feeling very depressed, despondent and dissonant with outside world. Whenever I feel a new vein "coming on" I feel listless and powerless in my ability to prevent it, I really do feel ravaged my this infliction somewhat, not knowing when or if ever it will leave me be to heal. The one solace I had during the early months was the thought that if I beat this thing at least it wouldn't leave upon me any physical scars however with every new vein that has appeared and with the onset of the very difficult to shake VS and tinnitus I now realise that this may not be the case. Visual snoiw in itself can leave one feeling very disconnected from the world and this can bring about it's own anxieties and brain fog. I yearn to be able to solely focus on the recovery of my libido but I suppose it's not to be.

Obviously it can be difficult to stay present and focused through out the day when dealing with such anxiety about ones health and this I feel is a massive obstacle for me to overcome given the brains ability to help one heal.


What I am doing

CDNut's PFS protocol

As stated above I have been doing CDNuts protocol, this included a 10 day juice fast and now I am taking a rotating cycle of adaptogenic herbs which I will list further down. I am also taking cold showers daily and alternating between meditation and Wim Hoff's breathing exercises. Also I am abstaining from masturbation and pornography for as long as I can.

Diet
I have always ate somewhat healthily, sticking to a mostly paleo esq diet. I have now incorporated a liter of OJ into my diet and more milk. since reading about PUFAS here I have looked to eliminate them from my diet. My diet mainly consists of grass fed beef or lamb, eggs, fruit, milk, coffee, cheese, green vegetables like spinach or broccoli, oats, occasional liver, some chicken, onions, garlic and potatoes and I supplement with sugar. I do have a protein shake a day also.

Supplements
5000ui Vitamin D
250mg Magnesium
150mg l-Theanine
Venalex (Diosmin 450mg and Hesperidin 50mg) for veinus health
I also take 500mg niacinamide on occasion though I think that I read somewhere it may counteract the effects of flavonoids so have stopped for now.
I was taking glycine but need to order more

I've just received Great Lakes gelatin and will look to have that with every meal.

Daily I cycle one of the following list by their recommended dosage:
Fo Ti
Butea Superba
Cordyceps
Tribulus
Ashwaganda
Maca Root
Horny Goat Weed
Catuaba Bark
Muira Puama
Siberian Ginseng
Royal Jelly
Rhodiola
Tongkat Ali
Suma Root

I also have the following ideal lab products, though I have stopped using them on my rat for now until I get a clearer picture of what is causing it's issues:
5a-DHP, Andosterone, Pansterone, Tyronene, Vit K, Diamant.

What I am looking to do
I have ordered a course of R-Andro as this appears to be high on the list of many PFS sufferers in getting their libido back. I do worry however that it may have other unwanted effects on my other symptoms so I will have to watch for that.

I am seriously considering buying the Combo Light form Red Light Man. I think that my thyroid and liver may be seriously compromised and have read good things about the effects that red light can have on the glands and organs. I'm considering even using it on my eyes and brain to see if it could have a beneficial effect of VS, eye floaters and tinnitus.

I am looking to take up surfing, I live in an excellent area for it and being in the sun (well somewhat, as sun is never guaranteed in Ireland) and the meditative aspect of surfing I feel could be good for my mental and hormonal state.

I plan on spending much more time outdoors in general. I am doing a computing course in college and this whole experience has left me with an extremely negative associative reaction to computers in general as they seem to increase my brain fog and visual snow.

I'm going backpacking to South America for August. This has been booked since November and was initially planned as a bit of a party trip with a couple of friends, though looking at my physical and mental state now I don't think that a month of drink and some drugs will do my recovery any good at all. I will now look to gain as much as possible from the experience and hopefully avoid those pitfalls. Being in the sun can't hurt too!

That's about everything I suppose. If anyone has any suggestions, tips advice on anything that I said (or even just wants a chat!) then I'm all ears. Particularly if it can potentially aid in the alleviation of any of the symptoms that I listed above. Thanks for reading my post.

Isnt Foti a dht inhibitor
 

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