Cold Feet Confusion

Herbie

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I have not had an issue with cold feet though since consciously using Ray Peats ideas on lowering stress making sure metabolism is well functioning Ive been dealing with cold feet in the winter, when I am sedentary once they are cold putting socks on doesn't help and need a hot water bottle or a shower to warm them up again or put my hands on them for 5-10 minutes. If I am active and walking around a lot or working they are don't get cold as long as I wear shoes.

Im thinking that the people I am around don't have cold feet but these people are highly stressed people and I used to be very stressed functioning on stress hormones type of existence and I think this would keep the feet warm because when the sympathetic nervous system is activated it is moving blood to extremities. People I live with or visit don't heat their homes and the temp can be 8 degrees C/46 degrees F to 19 degrees C/ 66 degrees F inside the house and my feet will get cold in these temps.

I am very calm these days and thought it might be that its actually cold enough to get cold feet. I have taken NDT but hasn't had an effect on my feet and I think thyroid is fine now because I maintain around 80bpm and if I take 1 grain of ndt I will get hyper. I thought it might be caffeine causing it so I keep the caffeine under 80mg a day but hasn't changed anything and higher calories doesn't change it.

Ive observed that Wim Hoff Guy who runs around in the cold with no clothes on but seems like a very stressed out guy compared to my current nature.

Perhaps there is a point where if your not stressed and in a parasympathetic state that getting cold feet in certain temperates is normal or at least not a sign of poor health or a sign that one needs more stress.
 

yerrag

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If it's very cold, I'd say it's normal for the body to warm the internal organs more than the extremities. The internal organs needs more protection, and that's where the body would allocate concentrate on warming. We've learned to deal with it such that we wear layers of clothing and use wool socks with the shoes. But these things you already know.

As to why other people have warmer feet, I'm curious to know how you know their feet are warmer. Did you touch them with your feet and felt the warmth? Or did they just not feel cold, unlike you? I don't know if they're anything like me. I don't ever use the water heater when I take my shower, even in our coldest months in Manila. But many people use the water heater even in the warmest months. Of course, it isn't as cold in Manila, but relative to other people here, I take the cold pretty well.

I'm sure I got this from having gone on a hot-cold therapy for a year. I would go to a sauna and stay there for 15 months, and after that I would stay in a pool that's about 12C for 1 minute. I would repeat this for 5 times each visit. 12C was already cold enough, and I'd find myself being alone as many people can't take the cold. Doing this 3x a week for a year got me the way I am now. That wasn't my goal though. I was using it for detox through the skin, and this is a good way.
 
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Herbie

Herbie

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If it's very cold, I'd say it's normal for the body to warm the internal organs more than the extremities. The internal organs needs more protection, and that's where the body would allocate concentrate on warming. We've learned to deal with it such that we wear layers of clothing and use wool socks with the shoes. But these things you already know.

As to why other people have warmer feet, I'm curious to know how you know their feet are warmer. Did you touch them with your feet and felt the warmth? Or did they just not feel cold, unlike you? I don't know if they're anything like me. I don't ever use the water heater when I take my shower, even in our coldest months in Manila. But many people use the water heater even in the warmest months. Of course, it isn't as cold in Manila, but relative to other people here, I take the cold pretty well.

I'm sure I got this from having gone on a hot-cold therapy for a year. I would go to a sauna and stay there for 15 months, and after that I would stay in a pool that's about 12C for 1 minute. I would repeat this for 5 times each visit. 12C was already cold enough, and I'd find myself being alone as many people can't take the cold. Doing this 3x a week for a year got me the way I am now. That wasn't my goal though. I was using it for detox through the skin, and this is a good way.

Thanks for the reply.

I wear have more layers on my torso which is normal fashion anyway.

I was assuming their feet were warm because they walk around with bare feet. If my feet are cold I will complain and do something about it, maybe they just put up with or in such a state that they aren't even aware the feet are cold.

I used to do this too for a few years at the local gym but it closed down a couple of years ago and haven't been able to use a sauna.
 

Xisca

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You should not be too much in parasympathetic either.... Sympathetic is more than only stress, as in a normal range, it is what allows you to have enough tonus for normal activities!
Also, when you deepen your relaxed state, you always reach some frozen past sympathetic activation, and this is the reason why most people cannot relax: their body does not want to, because the inner wise knows what is below, and that this is not the right moment nor place to do it.... When you do reach a deeper relaxed state, then the body wants to release some frozen and invisible sympathetic activation.

Also I think we do need to exercise and that it is necessary to maintain our temps without excessive stress. Of course cold is a stress that you have to deal with, and your body will, anyway. But which way... this is personal, no universal answer.

Just be careful to not be too proud of a very calm state, as this is often a sign of invisible frozen energy, and you really cannot know! Well, you can know by this mean: are you ALL the time quiet, or do you react adequately to any stress, I mean with a real appropriate activation, and then are able to relax back? If you are all the time quiete and feel you can be around people and react little, then you can doubt you have a balance between symp and parasymp! What most people do not know is that instead to have a balance, you can have both at the same time, para is hiding the symp! If you think this is your nature, as you said, you might just have become good at maintaining your activation, the sympathetic one, with your parasympathetic.

Parasympathetic is like a brake, and as in a car we have 2. One works with feet and you use 1 foot for both, so that you cannot use the 2 at the same time. The freeze in the body correspond to the hand brake used at the same time as the foot accelerator. The "tiny" difference is that in our bodies, the noise of the running engine is much less visible than in the car example!

I considere that any metabolic disorder proves that we have some excessive frozen sympathetic activation, maintained under a parasympathetic brake. It is normal to a certain point, and this is the case of the heart. When your heart beats more, it is not because the sympathetic works more, but because some of the normal brake is lifted. I guess evolution has found this to be the quickest and most effective way to give us instant reactions... So, this is normal but has to be under certain limits. The nerve that does all this is the vagus nerve. The 2 pathways are found in the polyvagal theory from Stephen Porges.

BTW, the dorso-vagal that causes the freeze response is also responsible for the deep relaxed states we can reach, like in meditation. All are life saving responses, but that can get stuck for many reasons, and the good signs are called resilience, and capacity to activate and to relax afterward. Lack of resilience show in 2 ways:
- You are always calm and look strong as you are able to not react. ..even when you should, but you always think that you should not, and you are prouod of it!
- You react, but it takes you soooo much time to go down, your brain is thinking and conversing with the lingering emotion, like anger. Then one day eventually you decide to become the 1st case above...

Imagine the retina and the sun.
It narrows fast when hit by the sun, but takes its time to widen in the dark, it is not so urgent, so the body saves energy to do it.
But there is a switch.
If you stay in 1 or another of the 2 possibilities or do not react at the normal speed, then there is a problem. You can become proud of seeing so well in the dark, as you get better at this, and go out only with dark and strong sun glasses, and you say that you must do this to protect your super extranormal ability to see in the dark! And you are just kidding yourself about your lack of capacity to adapt!

I also still have cold feet, and when I get warm I do not regulate well either, I am too much dependent on the outside temperature to help me, or on exercise. My conclusion is that it still shows some lack of resilience, inner coherence, or body integrity and self-regulation. The PENDULATION is slow and without good amplitude. No shame, just see the signs, thank them for informing me, and go on taking care of myself... sigh...
 

yerrag

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Thanks for the reply.

I wear have more layers on my torso which is normal fashion anyway.

I was assuming their feet were warm because they walk around with bare feet. If my feet are cold I will complain and do something about it, maybe they just put up with or in such a state that they aren't even aware the feet are cold.

I used to do this too for a few years at the local gym but it closed down a couple of years ago and haven't been able to use a sauna.

You're not alone. The spa I went to closed down. Glad I was able to use that spa then. As for not feeling the cold, I think also that there are people just built to take the cold somehow. When I left from Manila to a cold place, in Rochester, NY, I thought I wouldn't take to the cold. But there I was, wearing shorts in the middle of winter. And there she was, a local all her life, and she was shivering amidst all the layers of clothing. Still, I was sickly. I get the flu at least once a year then. Go figure.
 
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Herbie

Herbie

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cold feet is just high adrenaline no?

Yeah it could be, not sure though.

I thought about Wim Hoff because he uses adrenaline to keep him warm in the ice water etc.
 
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Herbie

Herbie

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You're not alone. The spa I went to closed down. Glad I was able to use that spa then. As for not feeling the cold, I think also that there are people just built to take the cold somehow. When I left from Manila to a cold place, in Rochester, NY, I thought I wouldn't take to the cold. But there I was, wearing shorts in the middle of winter. And there she was, a local all her life, and she was shivering amidst all the layers of clothing. Still, I was sickly. I get the flu at least once a year then. Go figure.

Yeah thats interesting.
 

Orion

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I used to have cold sweaty feet all the time whether core was warm or cold, figure it was due to adrenaline/cortisol keeping blood sugar stable. Once I focused on supporting glucose oxidation, feet are warm and dry all the time now.

B1/B3/B5 and aspirin shifted the balance.
 
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I think it's possible these other people you mention have cold feet too but just aren't self-aware enough to notice it. I think one characteristic that many of the types of people that frequently browse health forums have in common is a higher than average level of bodily self-awareness. All of the observed sensations, moods, bodily performance issues, etc. that are discussed and make up 75% of the content here are normally the types of things most average people never stop to think about.
 
OP
Herbie

Herbie

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I used to have cold sweaty feet all the time whether core was warm or cold, figure it was due to adrenaline/cortisol keeping blood sugar stable. Once I focused on supporting glucose oxidation, feet are warm and dry all the time now.

B1/B3/B5 and aspirin shifted the balance.

Interesting Orion. Thank you.
 
OP
Herbie

Herbie

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I think it's possible these other people you mention have cold feet too but just aren't self-aware enough to notice it. I think one characteristic that many of the types of people that frequently browse health forums have in common is a higher than average level of bodily self-awareness. All of the observed sensations, moods, bodily performance issues, etc. that are discussed and make up 75% of the content here are normally the types of things most average people never stop to think about.

I agree.
 
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Herbie

Herbie

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You should not be too much in parasympathetic either.... Sympathetic is more than only stress, as in a normal range, it is what allows you to have enough tonus for normal activities!
Also, when you deepen your relaxed state, you always reach some frozen past sympathetic activation, and this is the reason why most people cannot relax: their body does not want to, because the inner wise knows what is below, and that this is not the right moment nor place to do it.... When you do reach a deeper relaxed state, then the body wants to release some frozen and invisible sympathetic activation.

Also I think we do need to exercise and that it is necessary to maintain our temps without excessive stress. Of course cold is a stress that you have to deal with, and your body will, anyway. But which way... this is personal, no universal answer.

Just be careful to not be too proud of a very calm state, as this is often a sign of invisible frozen energy, and you really cannot know! Well, you can know by this mean: are you ALL the time quiet, or do you react adequately to any stress, I mean with a real appropriate activation, and then are able to relax back? If you are all the time quiete and feel you can be around people and react little, then you can doubt you have a balance between symp and parasymp! What most people do not know is that instead to have a balance, you can have both at the same time, para is hiding the symp! If you think this is your nature, as you said, you might just have become good at maintaining your activation, the sympathetic one, with your parasympathetic.

Parasympathetic is like a brake, and as in a car we have 2. One works with feet and you use 1 foot for both, so that you cannot use the 2 at the same time. The freeze in the body correspond to the hand brake used at the same time as the foot accelerator. The "tiny" difference is that in our bodies, the noise of the running engine is much less visible than in the car example!

I considere that any metabolic disorder proves that we have some excessive frozen sympathetic activation, maintained under a parasympathetic brake. It is normal to a certain point, and this is the case of the heart. When your heart beats more, it is not because the sympathetic works more, but because some of the normal brake is lifted. I guess evolution has found this to be the quickest and most effective way to give us instant reactions... So, this is normal but has to be under certain limits. The nerve that does all this is the vagus nerve. The 2 pathways are found in the polyvagal theory from Stephen Porges.

BTW, the dorso-vagal that causes the freeze response is also responsible for the deep relaxed states we can reach, like in meditation. All are life saving responses, but that can get stuck for many reasons, and the good signs are called resilience, and capacity to activate and to relax afterward. Lack of resilience show in 2 ways:
- You are always calm and look strong as you are able to not react. ..even when you should, but you always think that you should not, and you are prouod of it!
- You react, but it takes you soooo much time to go down, your brain is thinking and conversing with the lingering emotion, like anger. Then one day eventually you decide to become the 1st case above...

Imagine the retina and the sun.
It narrows fast when hit by the sun, but takes its time to widen in the dark, it is not so urgent, so the body saves energy to do it.
But there is a switch.
If you stay in 1 or another of the 2 possibilities or do not react at the normal speed, then there is a problem. You can become proud of seeing so well in the dark, as you get better at this, and go out only with dark and strong sun glasses, and you say that you must do this to protect your super extranormal ability to see in the dark! And you are just kidding yourself about your lack of capacity to adapt!

I also still have cold feet, and when I get warm I do not regulate well either, I am too much dependent on the outside temperature to help me, or on exercise. My conclusion is that it still shows some lack of resilience, inner coherence, or body integrity and self-regulation. The PENDULATION is slow and without good amplitude. No shame, just see the signs, thank them for informing me, and go on taking care of myself... sigh...

Hi Xisca, Thanks for the response, I've thought about what you wrote.

I think I understand what you mean with the car analogy, I am a car mechanic and can bridge the parallels to the body. The break while accelerating could be viewed as emotional trauma and baggage slowing down life from fear and releasing those scars will let the brake off and allow life to flow at an unencumbered speed and efficient use of energy.

Im not showing pride just trying to explain that I used to be heaps warm but was in a high adrenaline manic state but calmed down now which feels a lot better way to live but Ive gone too far in the other direction which is what you have explained and I feel I will pick the pace up a bit.

I do have deep underlying stress which is due to my current environment putting the brakes on but that is changing soon so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I am aware how the retina can be used with a bright light to test cortisol response, I understand what your saying its not a switch but one can feel a switch like occurrence and I don't wear sunglasses at all. I see it more as a response to the environment. the body receives information and adapts to it as quickly as it has resources to but the sunglasses confuse the body.

I feel everybody has their own balance for their lifestyles and need to do what feels good and live comes in waves and speeds up and slows down and its interesting how we are all very different.
 

kateb

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Aug 18, 2017
Messages
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I have not had an issue with cold feet though since consciously using Ray Peats ideas on lowering stress making sure metabolism is well functioning Ive been dealing with cold feet in the winter, when I am sedentary once they are cold putting socks on doesn't help and need a hot water bottle or a shower to warm them up again or put my hands on them for 5-10 minutes. If I am active and walking around a lot or working they are don't get cold as long as I wear shoes.

Im thinking that the people I am around don't have cold feet but these people are highly stressed people and I used to be very stressed functioning on stress hormones type of existence and I think this would keep the feet warm because when the sympathetic nervous system is activated it is moving blood to extremities. People I live with or visit don't heat their homes and the temp can be 8 degrees C/46 degrees F to 19 degrees C/ 66 degrees F inside the house and my feet will get cold in these temps.

I am very calm these days and thought it might be that its actually cold enough to get cold feet. I have taken NDT but hasn't had an effect on my feet and I think thyroid is fine now because I maintain around 80bpm and if I take 1 grain of ndt I will get hyper. I thought it might be caffeine causing it so I keep the caffeine under 80mg a day but hasn't changed anything and higher calories doesn't change it.

Ive observed that Wim Hoff Guy who runs around in the cold with no clothes on but seems like a very stressed out guy compared to my current nature.

Perhaps there is a point where if your not stressed and in a parasympathetic state that getting cold feet in certain temperates is normal or at least not a sign of poor health or a sign that one needs more stress.
Are you in a humid/rainy and cold place? I have been in such places and it was so hard to get my feet warm it would keep me awake had to sleep with two pairs of socks the wet cold is different. Also when I am in even a small calorie deficit I have cold feet at night even with a 98+ temp. When I've eaten enough or a surplus no cold feet and I am overly hot at night. Maybe caloric intake is worth considering.
 
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Herbie

Herbie

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Thanks for the reply, I live in a humid cold place currently as the seasons are somewhat extreme. I have eaten in a surplus with no change in the feet. I sustained an injury which has totally changed my life and I used to live a highly active life but now I am more sedentary physically but my mind has become the active one.
 
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It's heresy to say around these parts, but I think some people just need starch. Nothing warms my feet up like a potato. Sugar does absolutely nothing to warm my hands or feet.

Also I think the general view in Peat circles is that cold extremities are a result of vasoconstriction from elevated stress hormones. Eating to reduce stress hormones (eg sugar for some, starch for others) allows for peripheral vasodilation; that is, your hands and feet feel warmer.
 
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Xisca

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Hi Xisca, Thanks for the response, I've thought about what you wrote.

I think I understand what you mean with the car analogy, I am a car mechanic and can bridge the parallels to the body. The break while accelerating could be viewed as emotional trauma and baggage slowing down life from fear and releasing those scars will let the brake off and allow life to flow at an unencumbered speed and efficient use of energy.

Im not showing pride just trying to explain that I used to be heaps warm but was in a high adrenaline manic state but calmed down now which feels a lot better way to live but Ive gone too far in the other direction which is what you have explained and I feel I will pick the pace up a bit.

I do have deep underlying stress which is due to my current environment putting the brakes on but that is changing soon so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I am aware how the retina can be used with a bright light to test cortisol response, I understand what your saying its not a switch but one can feel a switch like occurrence and I don't wear sunglasses at all. I see it more as a response to the environment. the body receives information and adapts to it as quickly as it has resources to but the sunglasses confuse the body.

I feel everybody has their own balance for their lifestyles and need to do what feels good and live comes in waves and speeds up and slows down and its interesting how we are all very different.
What Nevill said about body awareness is very true and you agree too, and analogies are a way to transmit better this general awareness of the body.
But sorry for 2 mistaken words!
Instead of really "pride", I meant "happy" or satisfied.
And by "switch", I meant "change", alternating between 2 stages. It would be more like those lights you can turn on and off, but progressively.

So....
you said "when the sympathetic nervous system is activated it is moving blood to extremities" because you know about our 2 systems, that are accelerator and brake.
Did you know that as in a car, we have 2 brakes? 1 is alternate with accelerator, and the hand brake is separated, and we have such a brake in our bodies, that stops all, but with the activation still underneath.... The brake is what protects from trauma, and as a hand brake, it is indeed an emergency brake.
My analogy as very basic at physiology level.
Imagine the car running slow, or even at normal speed, but with accelerator pedal down, and hand brake blocked: needs a lot of gasoil! Or gazoline. Fat or sugar hehe.
What would you do if you wanted to run your car at the same speed, but sucking less petrol ?
As you said, release brake.
No! problem! you crash at full speed! You need to slooooooowly release the brake, and coordinate releasing the accelerator too!
Much easier to do with a car than with our bodies... Our bodies tend to have heart dysrythmia, panic attack, anxiety etc, to deal with the uncontrolled variations. Try to drive your car with only accelerator and hand brake, and you will see!

"I used to be very stressed functioning on stress hormones type of existence and I think this would keep the feet warm" : a lot of acceleration and the car is warm even if cold outside. Here we have to limit the analogy, because we have thyroid and surenals, while the car is just off or on while we are on all the time.

"I am very calm these days and thought it might be that its actually cold enough to get cold feet." : accelerator and brake might not be very adapted. If your thyroid is fine as it seems, may be you do not "accelerate" more because you know that if you do, you will overdo!

If you used to be very stressed, you can be very "happy" to be calm, that is what I meant by "proud". So I started my answer by "You should not be too much in parasympathetic either.... Sympathetic is more than only stress, as in a normal range, it is what allows you to have enough tonus for normal activities!" We tend to view stress as bad and relaxation or calm as good. Well, we need both, but at the right moment.

Then my retina analogy was to talk about resilience, the capacity to accelerate and brake a lot when we are resilient. For the eye, or a camera, it is the capacity to close and open, according to the environment. If you need to stay at a reduced variation, this shows some damage in the system. We all have some degree of damage. We are here to repair them!

Does it change a little bit what I said before?
 

GreekDemiGod

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I used to have cold sweaty feet all the time whether core was warm or cold, figure it was due to adrenaline/cortisol keeping blood sugar stable. Once I focused on supporting glucose oxidation, feet are warm and dry all the time now.
B1/B3/B5 and aspirin shifted the balance.
This desn't do it for me. Ate my breakfast with coffee 1hr ago and my feet are freezing. The rest of the body is warm enough. 36.6 celsius body temp. Hands are warm too. It's spring season here.

I guess I am more aware of my bodily sensations since Peating, however I still don't remember my feet getting so cold before peating. Maybe, maybe not. What gives? This happens mostly in the first part of the day, I'm not complaining of cold feet when it's time to sleep.
Starch with meat causes a drop in my temps. Is it possible that something that causes your body temp to drop to make your feet warmer, and by what mechanism?
 

laleto12

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This desn't do it for me. Ate my breakfast with coffee 1hr ago and my feet are freezing. The rest of the body is warm enough. 36.6 celsius body temp. Hands are warm too. It's spring season here.

I guess I am more aware of my bodily sensations since Peating, however I still don't remember my feet getting so cold before peating. Maybe, maybe not. What gives? This happens mostly in the first part of the day, I'm not complaining of cold feet when it's time to sleep.
Starch with meat causes a drop in my temps. Is it possible that something that causes your body temp to drop to make your feet warmer, and by what mechanism?
Exactly my experiences. My feet are generally colder at the first part of the day.
Starches makes them warmer. And coffee makes them freezing. Maybe milk too idk.
My body and hands are warm most of the time
 

S.Seneff

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I remember reading that coffee increasess free fatty acid in the blood but I can't find where. If it really the case, the body could adapt and burn more fats but so less glucose. Perhaps bright light and movement could oppose this effect I don't know.
 

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